scary wheel

so, how do you think this turned out?

$3/$5 NLHE, $200 buyin. I'm fairly new on the table (1 orbit), I've played 1 hand so far and won with TPTK (AQ). I've got $260 sitting at CO, button (around $600) has played half of the hands I've seen, BB (around $200) and MP (around $400) I've only seen play 1 or 2 hands.
deal comes
[As][2s]

MP calls, I raise to $15, button calls, SB folds, BB calls, MP calls

$60 pot
flop comes [3c][5c][Js]
not great, not bad. wheel draw,that's about it. Possible that no one hit the J.
BB check, MP check, I check. button bets $20, BB folds, MP calls, I call.

$120 pot.
turn [4s]
wheel and nut flush draw!
MP checks, I bet $60, button folds, MP calls.

$240
river [6c]
MP checks, so I should....

Would be very surprised is he has a 7, but could well have a been on a flush draw - can't work out what else fits. I think a Jack bets the flop, although he could just be calling you down with KJ or whatever.

Against an average player, I'd make a value bet around $60, because you're probably ahead. But then you have to fold to a large raise. Someone on a flush draw should bet this river though, since it's scary and they can't be sure you won't just check behind. The problem with value betting when you're against a tough player is that it's clear you don't have a flush from your betting patterns. So if the MP is a good player he'll make a big raise on your value bet, and you have a hard decision.

Bombjack said:

Would be very surprised is he has a 7, but could well have a been on a flush draw - can't work out what else fits. I think a Jack bets the flop, although he could just be calling you down with KJ or whatever.

Against an average player, I'd make a value bet around $60, because you're probably ahead. But then you have to fold to a large raise. Someone on a flush draw should bet this river though, since it's scary and they can't be sure you won't just check behind. The problem with value betting when you're against a tough player is that it's clear you don't have a flush from your betting patterns. So if the MP is a good player he'll make a big raise on your value bet, and you have a hard decision.

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Why not just check? Only opponent has already acted, so why give him opportunity to reraise? Check and see if straight is enough.

preflop looks like a technical error at this game with these stacks. Limping I would think is much better

flop is an easy fold.

on teh river, online I would check, but live, you might be able to pick up a timing/phsical tell that suggests betting is better

robwhufc said:

Why not just check?

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Because if you bet and are called by someone with a Jack, you increase your profit on the hand by 50%. Although you also stand to increase your losses if he raises and you have to fold. But if you feel you're ahead of his range and he'll call a small bet, I don't see any harm in getting extra value. You certainly don't want to make a big bet that will only be called if you're beaten. If he has the flush, you're losing the pot anyway, so it's not as though you're putting the rest of the pot at risk by making the extra bet.

I don't see a better hand paying you off, so I'd just check it down

Dbitel, why do you think limping is better here? Wouldn't you want to try to knock the button out so you have position here?

for the result orientated...

If you sit down and really think about this one, he didn't play this badly. I couldn't figure what hand MP had (the flush was unlikely but possible, you get some wacky people, and I was just too new on the table to be sure)., so I checked behind.

He shows [5s][6s] for two pair.

I show my deuce for the 6-high straight, and take my money.

here's how his hand must have looked:
PF limp for $5, and then 3 players pay $15. He only has to pay $10 for a pot that is already $50 - 5:1 odds - call.

Flop - middle pair. weak betting on the flop, lots of 2nd chances for his hand, call the button bet and see one more (this, I think, was his worst play).
Turn - he now has OESD and FD (although only one end of his straight and none of his flush is good). Figures he has 19 outs (9 FD, 8 OESD, 2 fives), worth calling a 1/2 pot bet.
River - two pair not what he wanted, check again.

knowing this I might have been able to get a little value out of him (bet 1/4 pot or less), but I think the check was the correct play.

Dingodaddy23 said:

Dbitel, why do you think limping is better here? Wouldn't you want to try to knock the button out so you have position here?

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Because this seems to be the sort of table where you dont fold out too many people preflop