Which one is the right approach?

B

billatx

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I've recenly played this hand :

pokerstars Game #65286242429: Hold'em No Limit ($0.05/$0.10 USD) - 2011/07/30 13:06:49 ET
Table 'Procyon V' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Billa_tx ($10 in chips)
Seat 2: microcuts429 ($5.99 in chips)
Seat 3: PokerSenya ($10.10 in chips)
Seat 4: Csarmy2010 ($4.44 in chips)
Seat 5: yung178 ($10 in chips)
Seat 6: Kirian11 ($10.57 in chips)
Billa_tx: posts small blind $0.05
microcuts429: posts big blind $0.10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Billa_tx [Kh Th]
PokerSenya: folds
Csarmy2010: folds
yung178: folds
Kirian11: folds
Billa_tx: raises $0.20 to $0.30
microcuts429: calls $0.20
*** FLOP *** [5h 8d 2h]
Billa_tx: checks
microcuts429: bets $0.43
Billa_tx: calls $0.43
*** TURN *** [5h 8d 2h] [Ks]
Billa_tx: checks
microcuts429: bets $1.10
Billa_tx: calls $1.10
*** RIVER *** [5h 8d 2h Ks] [Td]
Billa_tx: checks
microcuts429: bets $4.16 and is all-in
Billa_tx: calls $4.16
*** SHOW DOWN ***
microcuts429: shows [2s 2c] (three of a kind, Deuces)
Billa_tx: shows [Kh Th] (two pair, Kings and Tens)
microcuts429 collected $11.39 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $11.98 | Rake $0.59
Board [5h 8d 2h Ks Td]
Seat 1: Billa_tx (small blind) showed [Kh Th] and lost with two pair, Kings and Tens
Seat 2: microcuts429 (big blind) showed [2s 2c] and won ($11.39) with three of a kind, Deuces
Seat 3: PokerSenya folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Csarmy2010 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: yung178 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Kirian11 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)


Given the way 'microcuts429' played the hand, his shove on the river makes no sense.He either bluffs or he probably has a set or AA,AK. If i pokerstove his range i obviously have to make the call with my 2 pair.However my instict tells me he must have a set.Given his holdemmanager stats he doesn't look like a bluffer.
In those situations should i trust my instict and fold,or treat it strictly on a mathematical point of view and make the call?
 
Stu_Ungar

Stu_Ungar

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Given the way 'microcuts429' played the hand, his shove on the river makes no sense.He either bluffs or he probably has a set or AA,AK. If i pokerstove his range i obviously have to make the call with my 2 pair.However my instict tells me he must have a set.Given his holdemmanager stats he doesn't look like a bluffer.
In those situations should i trust my instict and fold,or treat it strictly on a mathematical point of view and make the call?

He calls IP with a small PP, makes a set, bets the flop, bets the turn and shoves the river. Why does this not make sense?

How would you have played it? check the river through just in case you were against a bigger set?
 
palmerd2

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Why did you check-call the flop? If you are going to check the flop you might as well fold, not float with King High. You should have kept the lead with a Cbet so you could lead the turn with an actual hand.
 
B

billatx

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He calls IP with a small PP, makes a set, bets the flop, bets the turn and shoves the river. Why does this not make sense?

How would you have played it? check the river through just in case you were against a bigger set?
I played that hand completely wrong.So i had in mind how i would have normaly played it ,that's why my question makes no sense with the hand i show.
Well,say i bet flop ,he calls,i bet turn ,he calls ,i ckeck river and he shoves all in.Which of the 2 approaches would you take?maths or instict?
 
B

billatx

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I know the example is not very good.But what should you trust more ?Range equity or instict when you 'know' he is not bluffing?
 
Stu_Ungar

Stu_Ungar

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I played that hand completely wrong.So i had in mind how i would have normaly played it ,that's why my question makes no sense with the hand i show.
Well,say i bet flop ,he calls,i bet turn ,he calls ,i ckeck river and he shoves all in.Which of the 2 approaches would you take?maths or instict?

Why would you check the river with 2 pair?
 
JOEBOB69

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poker stars $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1390353
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (SB): $10.00
BB: $5.99
UTG: $10.10
MP: $4.44
CO: $10.00
BTN: $10.57

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with K :heart: T :heart:
4 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.60) 5 :heart: 8 :diamond: 2 :heart: (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $0.43, Hero calls $0.43

Turn: ($1.46) (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $1.10, Hero calls $1.10

River: ($3.66) T :diamond: (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $4.16 all in, Hero calls $4.16

Covert the hand next time please.I had to covert where i could read it.
 
Stu_Ungar

Stu_Ungar

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to induce a bluff.There is no other way to extract money from a flush draw

So if he has a FD why did you c/c the turn?

TBH this hand is complete spew (by you).

Cbet the flop, bet the turn and shove the river.

Fold the flop and or turn to raises.
 
E

edgie212

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You played it as well as you could have. The only way you could get away after you hit two pair is if his all-in shove tipped you off to a set...his line makes that a believable story, but not for the deuce.
 
Stu_Ungar

Stu_Ungar

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You played it as well as you could have. The only way you could get away after you hit two pair is if his all-in shove tipped you off to a set...his line makes that a believable story, but not for the deuce.

its complete spew on OPs part, its played horribly.
 
B

billatx

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its complete spew on OPs part, its played horribly.
i know i played it horribly.You don't seem to get my question thow.If with that board i had bet flop-opponent calls,bet turn-opponent calls ,check turn-opponent shoves then there are 2 posiibilities for opponent.

a)he has set
b)he bluffs

I am prety sure he has set as he is a rock.The question is:Do i follow my instict and fold or do i call as it is a mathematically correct call based on his range(AA Ak 22 55 88) when i have K 10???
 
Stu_Ungar

Stu_Ungar

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i know i played it horribly.You don't seem to get my question thow.If with that board i had bet flop-opponent calls,bet turn-opponent calls ,check turn-opponent shoves then there are 2 posiibilities for opponent.

a)he has set
b)he bluffs

I am prety sure he has set as he is a rock.The question is:Do i follow my instict and fold or do i call as it is a mathematically correct call based on his range(AA Ak 22 55 88) when i have K 10???

Your question becomes irrelevant if you play the hand correctly. You do not check the river OOP with 2 pair.
 
B

billatx

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Your question becomes irrelevant if you play the hand correctly. You do not check the river OOP with 2 pair.
i disagree with that.I check the river because i put the opponent on a flush draw and only if i check will he get the chance to bluff me.If he makes a bet my plan is accomplished.But when he shoves all in,i'm sure he has a set.
 
Stu_Ungar

Stu_Ungar

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i disagree with that.I check the river because i put the opponent on a flush draw and only if i check will he get the chance to bluff me.If he makes a bet my plan is accomplished.But when he shoves all in,i'm sure he has a set.

So he cant have KQ KJ AK? AT?

you do not check here because there are more Kx hands he can have than FDs and he is unlikely to be bluffing missed draws to begin with. There are even fewer FDs he can have in this case being as you have 2 of the flush cards).

You are missing value here, just as you missed value on the turn and missed a good cbet spot on the flop.
 
B

billatx

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So he cant have KQ KJ AK? AT?

you do not check here because there are more Kx hands he can have than FDs and he is unlikely to be bluffing missed draws to begin with. There are even fewer FDs he can have in this case being as you have 2 of the flush cards).

You are missing value here, just as you missed value on the turn and missed a good cbet spot on the flop.
i have 2 of the flush .That's the answer i was looking.Agreed.I didn't notice that.
 
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