QTo UTG - Had A Feeling

Even though my PokerTracker says I only win with it about 25% of the time, I decided QT-offsuit had more potential that day for some reason and I limped in to see what would happen. I've won some big pots with 2 pair or straights and I figured I'd know when to lay it down. Only about my 4th or 5th hand at this Pot Limit table, so no reads yet.

I know most would fold it UTG, but what if you had to play it? How differently would you play it than I did here?

***** Hand History for Game 4247000955 *****
$25 PL Texas Hold'em - Friday, May 12, 01:05:01 ET 2006
Table Table 97968 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: orangecup ( $7.10 )
Seat 2: VitoDaKid ( $15.10 )
Seat 3: dugan473 ( $5.15 )
Seat 6: hoparduc ( $12.16 )
Seat 7: john3226 ( $9.25 )
Seat 9: Zro_oxide ( $26.65 )
Seat 4: PDSticker ( $18.75 )
Seat 5: Pepitos ( $25 )
Seat 8: droste815 ( $14.88 )
VitoDaKid posts small blind [$0.10].
dugan473 posts big blind [$0.25].
droste815 posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to PDSticker [ Qd Th ]
PDSticker calls [$0.25].
hoparduc folds.
john3226 folds.
droste815 checks.
Zro_oxide folds.
orangecup folds.
VitoDaKid calls [$0.15].
dugan473 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 2d, 4s, 5c ]
VitoDaKid checks.
dugan473 checks.
PDSticker checks.
droste815 bets [$0.25].
VitoDaKid calls [$0.25].
dugan473 folds.
PDSticker calls [$0.25].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Tc ]
VitoDaKid checks.
PDSticker checks.
droste815 bets [$0.25].
VitoDaKid folds.
PDSticker raises [$1.13].
droste815 calls [$0.88].
** Dealing River ** [ Qh ]
PDSticker bets [$3.81].
droste815 raises [$7.62].
PDSticker .....

(results posted later)

I really want to fold this preflop, but you've already stated that.

However, I also badly want to fold it on the flop.

On the turn, going for a checkraise is fine, but I would have liked it to be a bigger raise. Half the pot gives him 3-1 if he's drawing, and he's in position, granting him good implied odds.

The river? Ew. I hate that he raises us. We have no idea what he's holding, and even though we can get paranoid (set, flopped straight) it's at least exceedingly unlikely that he's holding TT or QQ, so two of the five sets he could have are not going to happen. There's too good of a chance that he's holding a weaker two pair than us (Q-4, etc.) or simply an open-ended draw with a Q-kicker that figures he has us beat now that he spiked top pair on the river, not to call here.

I don't really want to add up all the bets to find out the pot size, but it looks like somewhere in the vicinity of 11-3 or so, and the chance of him having a weaker hand is often better than that. Go for a call. I'm not sure I'd like a raise here, though, given that we have serious difficulties putting him on a hand.

PF: fold. QT out of position, i say fold

Flop: fold. I hate chasing overcards. You're getting 6:1 pot odds for your roughly 7:1 draw to the turn. Whos to say you'd have the best hand even if you did hit your pair? Maybe someone's hit a set/2pr/straight and is softplaying it?

Turn: i like leading out better than check-raising. top pair decent kicker is still not that strong IMO. You don't want to get trapped with top pair if he's got one of the above mentioned hands.

River: Well, due to the strangeness of the hand, i personally have NO idea what villain is holding. Maybe he slowplayed the straight to the river? :s

I dunno bout you, but I just hit full house in a tournament on consecutive hands with QT off. I'm kind of starting to like this hand.

(note, I know it is a generally crappy starting hand, but i've had a run of luck with it lately and just want to bask in the moment).

I think chuck may have called this right. The straight slow played to the river looks the likely option. Its possible he has a set but he will probably have played it slightly stronger with the straight draw on the board.

2 pair is a vastly exaggerated hand, even with a board like that

Easy fold

Regarding the river:

As much as I like reading hands, I really don't think we should spend much time trying to figure this guy out:

1. This is his first hand at the table.
2. He checked his posted BB in middle position. He can have anything, although it's likely he would have raised with his stronger hands.

I agree that it may look like a flopped straight, but given all the possible pair/two pair hands that we can beat that may well be just as likely, I prefer looking at the odds on the river and guess if we think we're beat more than three times out of four. Surely this is a two pair hand or worse 25% of the time?

F Paulsson said:

Regarding the river:

As much as I like reading hands, I really don't think we should spend much time trying to figure this guy out:

1. This is his first hand at the table.
2. He checked his posted BB in middle position. He can have anything, although it's likely he would have raised with his stronger hands.

I agree that it may look like a flopped straight, but given all the possible pair/two pair hands that we can beat that may well be just as likely, I prefer looking at the odds on the river and guess if we think we're beat more than three times out of four. Surely this is a two pair hand or worse 25% of the time?

Click to expand...

Top 2 pair on a strange board like that will be good a lot of the time, prob even more than 25%. The way the hand has been played out is kinda strange, one of those hands where you dont really know where you are and just hoping you have the best hand. He only min raised too, which is usually a sign of strengh.

Think of the hands you can beat. KQ, AQ. I mean its possible he has one of these and was calling with overcards, but the min raise makes it look like he wants a call

I wouldnt be totally against calling, but I would be pretty happy laying it down too

Condisering villain has just sat at the table and therefore I'm assuming no reads, the river has to be called. You'll see a weaker two pair, something like Q3, or even a total donkbluff often enough here to make the call profitable in the long run, I think.

Of course, you could have just saved yourself the tricky decision by either (a) folding preflop, or (b) folding the flop, but never mind eh?

MrSticker said:

Even though my PokerTracker says I only win with it about 25% of the time, I decided QT-offsuit had more potential that day for some reason and I limped in to see what would happen. I've won some big pots with 2 pair or straights and I figured I'd know when to lay it down. Only about my 4th or 5th hand at this Pot Limit table, so no reads yet.

I know most would fold it UTG, but what if you had to play it? How differently would you play it than I did here?

Click to expand...

Fold after the flop when one player bets and another player cals before you.

t1riel said:

Fold after the flop when one player bets and another player calls before you.

Click to expand...

I thought it was:

"Fold after the flop when one player RAISES and another player calls before you."

For a quarter, I figured I'd chase right along with the rest of 'em.

Besides, how do you guys know that I didn't rock this thing and take it down, BABY, YEAH !?!

V
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Uhhhh...

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I wish! No such luck.


** Dealing River ** [ Qh ]
PDSticker bets [$3.81].
droste815 raises [$7.62].
PDSticker calls [$3.81].
droste815 shows [ 3s, Ah ] a straight, ace to five.
PDSticker doesn't show [ Qd, Th ] two pairs, queens and tens.
droste815 wins $18.30 from the main pot with a straight, ace to five.


His call of my turn check-raise should have told me something (even though I now know my raise was too small). I got "macho" on the river & paid dearly for it.

I should have known better! Prior to this, I even had a similar losing hand saved in my PT Favorites regarding QJo UTG to remind myself of how bad these hands are UTG. My only solice here is that even AA would have been beat. Yes, the power of position.