QQ preflop decision

WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Little background. We've been lag (24/18/4) over a smallish sample (51 hands). We've 3bet the villain (13/8/inf) twice before this hand and each time he's folded. Both were suspected position steal attempts. MP2 is (11/4/5) over the same sample.

Anyway what's our action here:

Hero (MP1): $27.50
MP2: $25.55
CO: $25.30
BTN: $82.80
SB: $24.40
BB: $52
UTG: $26.95
UTG+1: $54.20

Pre-Flop: Q
spadenormal.gif
Q
diamondnormal.gif
dealt to Hero (MP1)
UTG raises to $0.85,
UTG+1 folds,
Hero raises to $2.50
,
MP2 calls $2.50,
4 folds,
UTG raises to $10.35
Hero ???

Standard fold?
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Lets see: You've got a nit to act after you, villain is nitty & 4-betting you. Calling is out of the question, since the pot is huge, and we gain a ton of equity by folding out one of these players. Since the original raise came from UTG, and I still have a super tight guy to act after me (who suspiciously called a 3-bet), I find a fold. If it were heads up, I'd prolly shove this. But you've got 1 nit who thinks his hand is good for a 3-bet, and another UTG raising nit who is 4-betting you. This is screaming strength to me.

I know you don't want to lay it down because A) you're pretty laggy, B) it looks like he's squeezing you. However, I'm not sure we see JJ or AQ enough here to make this shove profitable.
 
Jillychemung

Jillychemung

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I think I find a fold here also. You are left with AI or fold as your choices and I agree w/ c9 that one of these 2 will have AA/KK and maybe AK enough times to make it unprofitable.
 
benevg

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were you a part of that hand, you know the one? you should know that the kings won't fold any other time and you are losing despite hitting the set. sorry, but you should fold. ;)
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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How much does the flat call by MP2 effect your decision here?
 
benevg

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quite a lot, actually, if you asked about me. i just didn't want to repeat what c9 said above.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Asking everyone. So if MP2 folds we push?
 
vanquish

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man at these stakes i don't think i ever fold QQ preflop in a spot like this, but i guess you could argue a fold given 4-bettors table image.
last time i played a hand like this i ended up shipping in and ended up against JJ and that's when she said i lo-lo-lo-lo-look like a lollipop
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Asking everyone. So if MP2 folds we push?
Sure. If we somehow knew the nit to act behind us would fold if we shove, then I don't mind it so much (still a fairly marginal shove, since we have little FE). UTG raiser certainly has the ability to play AK/JJ this strongly, and he may know what a squeeze play is. But when a nit cold calls a 3-bet, it really gets me suspicious.
 
Jillychemung

Jillychemung

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If MP2 had folded to your raise instead of flat calling, yes I would be AI after UTG 3-bet. That flat call from MP2 when s/he knows that UTG still has to act is very dangerous, IMHO.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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If MP2 had folded to your raise instead of flat calling, yes I would be AI after UTG 3-bet. That flat call from MP2 when s/he knows that UTG still has to act is very dangerous, IMHO.

These were my thoughts exactly. I folded as did MP2 (really surprised by this). I'm still not sure I wasn't up against AA/KK from UTG but if MP2 hadn't called my 3bet I think I would have found out. :)

Thanks guys.
 
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Bentheman87

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"How much does the flat call by MP2 effect your decision here?"

Not much at all, if he had AA or KK, he would have reraised preflop here instead of just calling and risking a multiway pot. He just called so it's safe to assume he doesn't have AA or KK, remember most bets mean what they look like. He probably has something like 10 10 - 77 or two high cards, thinking you were pulling a squeeze because of your loose image.
 
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