Positionally based raise sizing.

c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Yes, this isn't a hand analysis thread, but I like good discussions rather than bad ones.

I'm sure you guys are familiar with the concept of sizing your raises based on position, however, I can't seem to find any agreement on which way you're supposed to go.

I've heard guys on this forum who are good players advocate raising more in early position, and less in late position. On the flip side of the coin, I've heard a lot of people saying that you should raise more in late position, less early. Isn't there a Chris Ferguson article with that as the subject floating around the internets? Anyways...

Lets settle this issue once & for all. I think the main points of the argument go like this:

Points in favor of raising more in late position
1) Allows you to play bigger pots when you're in the strongest position.
2) Gives more fold equity to steals.
3) Allows more callers when your hand range is the strongest (early position).

Points in favor of raising less in late position & more in early position
1) Larger SPR when in position.
2) Steals have to suceed less often to be profitable.
3) Smaller pots when your hand range is the widest (late position), bigger pots when your hand range is stronger.
4) More preflop fold equity when out of position, so we have to play less postflop pots.

What's better against your average micro-small stakes hold'em games? Assume we're at an average table that is a mix of TAG's & fish.

I personally have been raising ~4xBB's in late position, and 3xBB's in early position, and I haven't really thought about why in detail. And I'm not sure I can see the effect that its having on my bottom line without changing my game up.

Lastly, I know you guys are going to give your favorite poker answer "It depends". But depends on what!!? Be specific! Also, it'd be cool if you guys said which one you currently practice (if you keep your raises bigger in late position, early, or the same).
 
S

sw7104

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1. I think there's actually a forum for this kind of discussion, but I'm not the moderator nor the Thread Police...

2. When you say "raise more", I assume you mean "raise more amount ($$)" not "raise more often (frequency)". Correct?

3. Anyway -- If my goal is to narrow the field and build a pot worthy of what I'm holding, or to steal the pot, I raise MORE the earlier my position. Generally, I'm trying to make up for positional disadvantage. Plus, if I miss on flop and then c-bet, I will have greater psychological advantage.

Conversely, when I'm later in position, there are already fewer bettors (assuming folds to my position), so I need to bet less to narrow the field, and lower my exposure should a strong hand lurk behind me.
 
Richyl2008

Richyl2008

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Well "it depends".... I tend to like raising more in EP then in LP for the reasons you have listed. But I will alter that based on table conditions.
If the blinds are nits and I am in the co or button, I only need to raise 3x to get the job done, unless i'm in the co and the button is loose. If the blinds are loose I will steal less frequently with weak hands, but raise to 4x when I do because my hands will be stronger and I expect them to call with much worse.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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I personally use a pot sized opening raise (3.5x) from all positions but I have experimented with a smaller raise in EP and a larger raise in LP in the past. I switched to a single raise size because I figured that my opening range was stronger from EP so I wanted more $$ in the middle preflop than I was getting with a smaller opener and I don't mind making the pot larger in LP because well I have position.

So basically I see no reason to vary my raise sizes because I either have a very strong range or I have position.
 
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