Pocket 99 Vs LAG

C

ColdDeckCity

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I feel that i actually played this well but what do you guys think? I suspected he had two big cards but didn't want to get check raised off the best hand on the turn, with a hand that is very likely good, plus i can expect him to make a bluff on the river

100NL 6MAX

Villain 28/27/8

SB ($134.94)
BB ($86.50)
UTG ($100)
Hero ($145.71)
Button ($111.50)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 9
diamond.gif
, 9
heart.gif
.
1 fold, Hero raises to $3, 1 fold, SB raises to $11.5, 1 fold, Hero calls $9.

Flop: ($24.50) 3
club.gif
, T
diamond.gif
, 5
heart.gif
(2 players)
SB bets $16, Hero calls $16.

Turn: ($56.50) 2
diamond.gif
(2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($56.50) 8
spade.gif
(2 players)
SB bets $45, Hero calls $45.

Final Pot: $146.50

Results in white below:
SB has 8c 8d (three of a kind, eights).
Hero has 9d 9h (one pair, nines).
Outcome: SB wins $146.50.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Standard. You can fold this river based on bet sizing/reads, but I'm usually calling.
 
Chris_TC

Chris_TC

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You played it well. Very standard. River is a call every single time against this type of opponent.
 
D

deton8whore

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As said above, you played it well. Considering the re raise preflop though I'd think he'd have AK / AQ. Maybe a flop bet next time you get a good flop?
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

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I think this is OK.

Still, and I'm only partially playing devil's advocate... Even though he's LAG, I still think betting about $35 on the turn is probably fine, too, mostly to keep him from drawing out on you with overcards. Like you said, there's a risk you're pushed off the best hand if you bet the turn, but I think this risk is seriously diminished here. It would be different if he had opened from the SB and you had just called in the BB, but in this hand it was 3-bet preflop. Your range, in his eyes, is pretty strong. Therefore, his willingness to try to bluff you should be low.

That said, checking behind on the turn may induce a bluff on the river. So I probably still think that the line you took is better; just wanted to point out that there's a decent case to be made for betting the turn.

Edited to add: ... betting the turn with the intention of checking behind on the river, of course.
 
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Ihatecowboys

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how about raising the flop? that would even give him less time to suck out, and if he raises there or bets on the turn or river you just fold.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Ihatecowboys

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so what does this have to do with this "WA/WB concept"? any more over cards and your hand is terrible. might as well bet while you are ahead and your hand is still strong, its not like you are putting him on a 2 outer. almost any card that comes up makes bluffs more likely, but it also makes it more likely that you are simply beat.

KK on a flop with an A is completely different, its much harder to catch up to because the only overcard is already on the board, and either they have you beat on the flop, or they probably aren't catching up.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Overcards don't have a boatload of equity against us, and its just cheaper to lead the turn (or let him keep bluffing). If we raise, he never bluffs again, and folds all his air. Not to mention that we're crushed super retarded by anything that calls a raise.

I wouldn't mind a 1/2 pot bet on the turn to protect our hand. But against this villain, I think there's more value in checking behind and letting him bluff the river.
 
shinedown.45

shinedown.45

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I feel that i actually played this well but what do you guys think? I suspected he had two big cards but didn't want to get check raised off the best hand on the turn, with a hand that is very likely good, plus i can expect him to make a bluff on the river

100NL 6MAX

Villain 28/27/8

SB ($134.94)
BB ($86.50)
UTG ($100)
Hero ($145.71)
Button ($111.50)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 9
diamond.gif
, 9
heart.gif
.
1 fold, Hero raises to $3, 1 fold, SB raises to $11.5, 1 fold, Hero calls $9.

Flop: ($24.50) 3
club.gif
, T
diamond.gif
, 5
heart.gif
(2 players)
SB bets $16, Hero calls $16.(
worse hands fold and better hands call/raise.
taken from WA/WB thread)


Turn: ($56.50) 2
diamond.gif
(2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.(please explain why you just check here, IMHO SB's check here clearly shows weakness because of your flop call)

River: ($56.50) 8
spade.gif
(2 players)
SB bets $45, Hero calls $45.

Final Pot: $146.50

Results in white below:
SB has 8c 8d (three of a kind, eights).
Hero has 9d 9h (one pair, nines).
Outcome: SB wins $146.50.
I'm not questioning your play in a negative way, just curious as to why you played it this way as I don't play that level and looking to learn more strategies.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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The turn is a blank, and we have an aggressive villain. His aggression factor is 8! Checking behind and inducing a bluff will make us more money the times that we're out drawn by the hands that we beat. Plus, it saves us money when he has a hand like QT/JT that he's not folding. So basically on the turn, we're even more WA/WB than we were on the flop.

If this guy's AF was like 1, then we could make a decent case for flipping out a bet to make overcards pay to outdraw us, but it wouldn't be a big one since we're not expecting to be called by worse unless our image is really bad.
 
shinedown.45

shinedown.45

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The turn is a blank, and we have an aggressive villain. His aggression factor is 8! Checking behind and inducing a bluff will make us more money the times that we're out drawn by the hands that we beat. Plus, it saves us money when he has a hand like QT/JT that he's not folding. So basically on the turn, we're even more WA/WB than we were on the flop.

If this guy's AF was like 1, then we could make a decent case for flipping out a bet to make overcards pay to outdraw us, but it wouldn't be a big one since we're not expecting to be called by worse unless our image is really bad.
This is what I don't understand.
In my experience, an aggressive player doesn't check when he has the better hand.
How many hands have you shown down to be the better hand when playing against villian(stats irrelevant)?
IMO, If you two have gone HU on more than 1 occasion with you being the clear winner in the end, then I think you might have made a mistake of not betting the turn, I think a $32 bet on the turn would have put you in a better position to fold on the river to any bet he might have made and saved yourself $12.
Most likely villian would have folded as most aggressors do when faced with aggression.
Just my opinion though and I know most if not all might disaggree with me.
 
C

ColdDeckCity

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An interesting point shine but if i did raise i could have lost that bet, through having the worst hand or even if he sense weakness and re-raises me as my hand cannot stand a re-raise, this is why i felt that the check-call line was the most profitable, although every so often i will get drawn out on
 
dsvw56

dsvw56

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This is what I don't understand.
In my experience, an aggressive player doesn't check when he has the better hand.

Most likely villian would have folded as most aggressors do when faced with aggression.
Just my opinion though and I know most if not all might disaggree with me.

This is exactly why we check behind here. We have his range pretty much crushed and hardly any of it is calling a bet. So how do we get more value? Check behind to induce a river bluff. Betting the turn turns our hand in to a bluff basically, which is horrible because of how much showdown value it has. By betting the turn, we also risk getting bluff raised off the best hand if he thinks we floated him light.
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

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By the way, since our opponent often has (at least) six outs on the turn, I disagree with qualifying it as wa/wb. Protection, while perhaps not essential in this situation, still carries more value than in a typical wa/wb scenario.
 
shinedown.45

shinedown.45

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This is exactly why we check behind here. We have his range pretty much crushed and hardly any of it is calling a bet. So how do we get more value? Check behind to induce a river bluff. Betting the turn turns our hand in to a bluff basically, which is horrible because of how much showdown value it has. By betting the turn, we also risk getting bluff raised off the best hand if he thinks we floated him light.
So your saying that it's alright to take a passive stance against an aggressive player?
 
I

Ihatecowboys

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By the way, since our opponent often has (at least) six outs on the turn, I disagree with qualifying it as wa/wb. Protection, while perhaps not essential in this situation, still carries more value than in a typical wa/wb scenario.
finally someone who agrees with me :)
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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So we have a 3-bet pot. Lets say SB is 3-betting some suited connectors as bluffs, AQ, AK, maybe AJ/KQ, and 77+ (since he looks like a decent lag).

What is our equity on the turn against his range? Are we going to call a bet when an A hits the board?

I wish I had pokerstove at work.
 
I

Ihatecowboys

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A on the river is debatable, but i'd be folding a turned ace in a heartbeat. look at his range and just think of what you can possibly beat.

i really dont like this passive call call call way of playing against this guy though with so many scare cards that can come up.
 
dsvw56

dsvw56

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So we have a 3-bet pot. Lets say SB is 3-betting some suited connectors as bluffs, AQ, AK, maybe AJ/KQ, and 77+ (since he looks like a decent lag).

What is our equity on the turn against his range? Are we going to call a bet when an A hits the board?

I wish I had pokerstove at work.

52.6% using this range :

77+,AJs+,KQs,JTs,T9s,98s,AQo+

That'd be a 3-betting range of like 7.5%, which seems about on par for this type of player especially given the steal/re-steal dynamic of the hand.

And no, I don't think we can continue if an A hits the board.
 
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Justboo

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Betting big with middle pair preflop always scares me. It is almost always my luck that someone will call with AK, AQ, etc. and hit it!
 
Wolfpack43ACC

Wolfpack43ACC

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Once he checked that turn I'm firing out for atleast $35-$40.
 
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