Originally Posted by dwbrown7680
I would not consider (Q,9,8,9) a trap hand. It is in the perfect neighborhood for lots of different straight opportunities, along with a set, or possible flush (although chasing or betting a Q high flush in Omaha IS murder). As long as the flop comes rainbow I like this hand alot. Until you get to higher stakes (and by this I mean at least $5/$10 PLO) 75% of the players who play Omaha rely/use too much of their Hold'em knowledge in a game that is in a league of it's own. People will constantly overbet hands such as A,A,x,x and the like when in all reality unless i'm heads up I really dont like that hand as it doesnt have much potential of improving
I agree with most of this. The reason why I said to fold this hand PF is because its a $0.05/$0.10 table and it was raised to $2. Speculative hands like 99Q8 are fine to play in Omaha because admittedly it has potential, but I don't want to spend 20BB's on it to see the flop. When you look at the action PF, until it was going to cost $0.30 and it was going 4/5-way, I think it's fine to play hands like this every now and then, even if, when it goes 4-way or more, you're absolutely correct that the Q-high flush is murder. But the hand has many possiblities beyond the flush, and until it's cheap to get in I have nothing against it.
Although it's true people overbet AAxx hands, when they are doing it PF it's not wrong. If I could get all my chips in PF with that hand vs 1 or 2 opponents, I'd be happy, especially if it's double suited and with a broadway card for straight possibilities. Honestly though, if it's going all-in vs 5 opponents, I'm no longer happy because the chances of it holding against them are slim. The mistake most players at the small stakes make with AAxx is that they go too far with it from the flop on when it doesn't improve, particularly if the pot isn't HU. Many times, about Omaha, you hear that it's a game of the nuts. At the small stakes this is 10 fold more important than it is so at the higher stakes because pots go multiway more often than not. I still think it's ok to raise AAxx PF to $0.30, but after that you need to play it cautiously. This is the part that gets overlooked, as you pointed out.
You're also correct IMO when you state that people rely too much on their Holdem knowledge when playing Omaha, and I agree that is a huge mistake. Counting your outs in low stakes Omaha will almost always lead to you making an expensive mistake. The only effective outs you can count are those that give you the nuts, for the rest you should look at it in terms of percentages, more than outs. When they don't look favorable, as in this hand, you should fold.
This flop is leaving you for sure behind at the moment, almost anything beats you right now. You have only 3 outs to the nuts, and it's asking you to put $15 in a $24 pot. I think there is so much wrong in making this call that I don't even know where to start. While you still could, of course, win it if you call (sooo many suckouts in Omaha), the percentages are certainly against it. The main mistake is counting your outs, because so many of them could be dead ones. Putting $15 here would be reckless to say the least, and relying too much on luck. As bad as it might seem though, I insist that the bigger mistake was getting into this by calling the $2 PF.