Pagget 10

1010 From middle position, facing interesting turn decision.

1) What is our line from here on out?

2) What do we believe our opponent is holding here?

(No need to criticize my pre flop line, I know it is a bad limp)

full tilt poker Game #4616199313: Table Indian Chief - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 0:11:06 ET - 2007/12/25
Seat 1: snup111 ($1.20)
Seat 2: mackain ($5.15)
Seat 3: clownpunn ($1.75)
Seat 4: royalburrito24 ($9.20)
Seat 5: Firm Game ($20.25)
Seat 6: aveclec0eur ($11.10)
Seat 7: arfin ($4.35)
Seat 8: drtom437 ($10.50)
Seat 9: Dlikesexotic ($11.05)
Dlikesexotic posts the small blind of $0.05
snup111 has 5 seconds left to act
snup111 has been disconnected
snup111 is sitting out
snup111 has timed out
mackain posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to royalburrito24 [Th Ts]
clownpunn folds
royalburrito24 calls $0.10
Firm Game calls $0.10
aveclec0eur folds
arfin folds
drtom437 folds
Dlikesexotic raises to $0.40
mackain folds
royalburrito24 calls $0.30
Firm Game folds
*** FLOP *** [5h 9c 4c]
Dlikesexotic bets $0.60
royalburrito24 raises to $1.40
Dlikesexotic calls $0.80
*** TURN *** [5h 9c 4c] [7h]
Dlikesexotic has 15 seconds left to act
Dlikesexotic checks
royalburrito24

Well I'm not familiar enough with 10nl to know what types of ranges we're looking at here for villain, but I'd expect most overpairs to probably repop on the flop so we should be ahead most of the time here. tbh I'm really not sure what types of hands to pin him on. Maybe he's bad enough to call the flop with overs, maybe he's slowplaying a set, maybe he's slowplaying an overpair, maybe he's got a FD or straight draw...

As played (yes, pf is bad - raise please) we're very much in the dark. In general I'll probably bet-fold the turn, and check behind on the river for pot control if called on the turn depending on what it is.

Oh and I must point out that I rarely ever play cash games, so I am practicing my cash game multi tabling skills out on micro stakes. This experimentation probably explains the exceedingly bad plays I seem to make all the time.

royalburrito24 said:

Oh and I must point out that I rarely ever play cash games, Since switch pwns me everytime ive sat with him

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FYP

I think we should be re raising the pre flop raise after weve limped. No on turn we need to overbet pot since he obviously has overcards after seeing this type of play. He only called the flop min raise because he didnt want to look weak and was hoping to spike a pair. Overbet it and take it down

i think that villain's range is huge, as a connoisseur of micro-stakes D) he could even just have something like A Q, and called on the flop because he thought, 'i have AQ, i have to win this hand' so i think we should bet into him now, see how strong he really is, hope no scare card comes on the river if called

Well since this thread did not get any action I cannot remember how much I bet on the turn, but I am guessing I bet 1/2-3/4 of the pot.
The river card was a blank, lower than a 10, and I was checked to once again. Do I make a value bet at this point on the river? Or do I just check behind?

if he has called the turn then he could very well be holding A9 or something like that, so i think valuetown is the best line here. If a 9 is the highest card on the board, then maybe 3/4 pot size is the right bet here

royalburrito24 said:

Do I make a value bet at this point on the river? Or do I just check behind?

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vvv

ChuckTs said:

In general I'll probably bet-fold the turn, and check behind on the river for pot control if called on the turn depending on what it is.

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In general with weak overpairs like this we want to check somewhere for pot control.

ChuckTs said:

In general with weak overpairs like this we want to check somewhere for pot control.

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can you tell me why checking gains pot control? cos i actually don't know

Well, by checking we don't fall prey to a check-raise if villain's been slowplaying. Also if villain is playing JJ+ passively, we save money on the river by checking behind even if he's only planning on check-calling.

In marginal spots like this where you're not sure you're ahead it's often better to check at least one street if possible to try and see a cheap showdown.

Ok, I found the full HH:
Full Tilt poker game #4616199313: Table Indian Chief - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 0:11:06 ET - 2007/12/25
Seat 1: snup111 ($1.20)
Seat 2: mackain ($5.15)
Seat 3: clownpunn ($1.75)
Seat 4: royalburrito24 ($9.20)
Seat 5: Firm Game ($20.25)
Seat 6: aveclec0eur ($11.10)
Seat 7: arfin ($4.35)
Seat 8: drtom437 ($10.50)
Seat 9: Dlikesexotic ($11.05)
Dlikesexotic posts the small blind of $0.05
snup111 has 5 seconds left to act
snup111 has been disconnected
snup111 is sitting out
snup111 has timed out
mackain posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to royalburrito24 [Th Ts]
clownpunn folds
royalburrito24 calls $0.10 Given mistake here, limping with tens=no good
Firm Game calls $0.10
aveclec0eur folds
arfin folds
drtom437 folds
Dlikesexotic raises to $0.40
mackain folds
royalburrito24 calls $0.30 This seems fine in my book.
Firm Game folds
*** FLOP *** [5h 9c 4c]
Dlikesexotic bets $0.60 obvious c-bet.
royalburrito24 raises to $1.40 The raise here is to just get him off any overcards making a c-bet and so I can see where I stand in the hand.
Dlikesexotic calls $0.80 This call makes me think he has overcards with 2 clubs, or a weirdly played 88 or A9.
*** TURN *** [5h 9c 4c] <font color='red'>7?</font>
Dlikesexotic has 15 seconds left to act
Dlikesexotic checks
royalburrito24 bets $2 figured I could take it down here, no problem.
Dlikesexotic calls $2 This call made me think he was very unsure about his hand.
*** RIVER *** [5h 9c 4c 7h] <font color='black'>2?</font>
Dlikesexotic checks
royalburrito24 bets $2 His check gives me the go ahead to make another value-bet, Wrong play here, should keep the pot small instead.
Dlikesexotic calls $2 Value bet accomplished?
*** SHOW DOWN ***
royalburrito24 shows [Th Ts] a pair of Tens
Dlikesexotic shows [Ah As] a pair of Aces OH!
Dlikesexotic wins the pot ($10.65) with a pair of Aces

His check-calling on the turn and river told me that he was very scared that his aces were cracked, but nothing really materialized that could have threaten his hand strongly. He must have been afraid of the flopped set.
Well I think I know how to play this type of situation a little bit better.

you need to thank that guy for not busting you. Since you showed very little strength apart from re raise on flop but then you slowed down. I think he probably kept it small since he was out of position

Seriously, the way he played this hand, there's no much of a chance I'd ever put him on aces. I just can't decide if it was brilliant or beyond stupid.

Here is my 2c.

royalburrito24 said:

Ok, I found the full HH:
Full Tilt Poker Game #4616199313: Table Indian Chief - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 0:11:06 ET - 2007/12/25
Seat 1: snup111 ($1.20)
Seat 2: mackain ($5.15)
Seat 3: clownpunn ($1.75)
Seat 4: royalburrito24 ($9.20)
Seat 5: Firm Game ($20.25)
Seat 6: aveclec0eur ($11.10)
Seat 7: arfin ($4.35)
Seat 8: drtom437 ($10.50)
Seat 9: Dlikesexotic ($11.05)
Dlikesexotic posts the small blind of $0.05
snup111 has 5 seconds left to act
snup111 has been disconnected
snup111 is sitting out
snup111 has timed out
mackain posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to royalburrito24 [Th Ts]
clownpunn folds
royalburrito24 calls $0.10.You can limp or raise here. At this level sets will get paid enough to cover you. It is generally better to enter a pot raising though.
Firm Game calls $0.10
aveclec0eur folds
arfin folds
drtom437 folds
Dlikesexotic raises to $0.40. What range do you put villain on?
mackain folds
royalburrito24 calls $0.30. He is deep enough to call here purely on implied odds so the call is fine.
Firm Game folds
*** FLOP *** [5h 9c 4c]
Dlikesexotic bets $0.60 C-Bet or true strength.
royalburrito24 raises to $1.40. I'm not a great fan of this play. If it's AK/AQ/AJ c-betting then a call by you is good enough because most players with these hands will check the turn unimproved if called on the flop. Also, an 80c bet isn't big enough to push someone off overs at this level. What you're doing is swelling the pot with a vulnerable overpair.
Dlikesexotic calls $0.80
*** TURN *** [5h 9c 4c] <font color='red'>7?</font>
Dlikesexotic has 15 seconds left to act
Dlikesexotic checks
royalburrito24 bets $2 Check behind for pot control. You're bet is doing his betting for him and at this point we have cause for concern.
Dlikesexotic calls $2 This call means he likes his hand and we are going to showdown.

*** RIVER *** [5h 9c 4c 7h] <font color='black'>2?</font>
Dlikesexotic checks
royalburrito24 bets $2 Again, I check behind.

Dlikesexotic calls $2 Value bet accomplished? No, you were let off the hook bigtime.
*** SHOW DOWN ***
royalburrito24 shows [Th Ts] a pair of Tens
Dlikesexotic shows [Ah As] a pair of Aces OH!
Dlikesexotic wins the pot ($10.65) with a pair of Aces

Check out the WA/WB thread, this will give you a great primer on pot control and why you do it.

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Tobmeister said:

i think that villain's range is huge, as a connoisseur of micro-stakes D) he could even just have something like A Q, and called on the flop because he thought, 'i have AQ, i have to win this hand' so i think we should bet into him now, see how strong he really is, hope no scare card comes on the river if called

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^^^^this is true. Micros are usually loaded with Dfish.
The call of your raise on the flop would give me pause. Checking on the turn would have been the best. And with on the river your bet wasn't bad. Like Genso said, this guy was either a genius or idiot. On the river he should have reraised. I probably would have put him on anything but Aces playing how he did.