re: Poker & Overplayed JJ, or unfortunate circumstance?
I tend to disagree. We have a maniac, and finally we get a pretty big overpair and a flop that is very unlikely to have hit more than a flush draw.
A maniac is perfectly capable of overbetting so much with a flush draw. Let alone top pair or a smaller overpair.
I don't agree with the flop call. This is about 50% of your stack. You either fold or move-in right here. That would increase the chance to get rid of the 2nd donk.
There is a fine line between total idiots and good very aggressive players. The chip stacks and the call by maniac (for 10% of chips stack), with such garbage indicates he is a total idiot. I would seek to play with him/her again. In position! You should recoup your losses from this one hand many times over
I would agree (arrinn) if we we were closing the action on both opponents, but the facts are this:
Our flop bet got called by the blind and then raised by the limper. We have next to no info on what the blinds have in this case: could he be floating, on a draw, calling with TPTK ? This means that our equity goes down dramatically against two opponents who could have major draws on this flop. Let's say that preflop limper has a range of 87s+, KJs+, KQs+, Axs+, Axo+, 22+ due to looseness there's a whole lot of "raising for value or for isolation hands" here and his raise really doesn't help us much figuring his hand out (since the dead money in the pot warrants raising with many, many hands). Blind can have literally anything, but is most likely floating or drawing to two pairs, flush draw, etc. and his range is thus also pretty big.
When I'm in the dark and have lost pot control in such a situation, I would probably go for a fold after the raise since I'm not closing the action (and the blind could have a set, two pairs, or just a big draw and be happy to call my all-in with good equity making me take the worse of it), but I'm really, really weak tight with 2 donks in the hand and such preflop/flop action. Considering stack sizes, villain raise has negated our positional advantage since calling is not an option anymore (JJ is far from a lock with even a simple KQ having 8 outs and if we figure our opponents to have both 8 outs or more, our equity drops down, but we still have more than 1/3 of the pot if my seat of the pants maths/approx are good). I could thus argue for a shove here if I knew I had some FE and some good redraws, but the set is a very real possibility here. We also statistically are shown AA, KK and QQ more often than an underpair to our overpair, wich leaves only TT: realistically, this is TT more often than AA due to preflop line, but KK and QQ are a possibility.
His preflop call was pretty donkish for 10% of his chips since he won't hit more than one time out of three. In this case, his ods of hitting hard and making the best hand or a great draw are probably below 1:15 and he is investing a third in the pot. Plus, even if his hand was suited, it is very vulnerable to getting outflushed. Moral of the story, hunt down players who will play 23o and get to be best buddy with them. But I'd wager that if the results weren't posted, people here would pretty take the safe line and fold.