OMG Razz!!! Don't get too excited

Let's get some Razz discussion going on around this place. :turtle:

What's your plan on 4th street and the rest of the hand?

Nutuzzi is new to me but plays like a hyperloose maniac and has shown down lots of horrible hands. I am all yours is a losing player over a 1,500 hand sample size.

FullTiltPoker Game #7131846308: Table Tamarus - $3/$6 Ante $0.50 - Limit Razz - 0:46:40 ET - 2008/07/08
Seat 1: NUTUZZI ($24)
Seat 3: I am all yours ($24.50)
Seat 4: skoldpadda9 ($150.50)
Seat 5: bleuprint ($50)
Seat 6: jbrennen ($122)
Seat 7: skynumbers ($202), is sitting out
Seat 8: SG1fan ($146.50)
I am all yours antes $0.50
skoldpadda9 antes $0.50
SG1fan antes $0.50
jbrennen antes $0.50
bleuprint antes $0.50
NUTUZZI antes $0.50
*** 3RD STREET ***
Dealt to NUTUZZI 5♦
Dealt to I am all yours 5♠
Dealt to skoldpadda9 [2h 3d] 7♠
Dealt to bleuprint A♦
Dealt to jbrennen A♠
Dealt to SG1fan 2♦
skoldpadda9 is high with 7♠
skoldpadda9 brings in for $1
bleuprint folds
jbrennen folds
SG1fan completes it to $3
NUTUZZI raises to $6
I am all yours calls $6
skoldpadda9 calls $5
SG1fan calls $3
*** 4TH STREET ***
Dealt to NUTUZZI 5♦ 2♠
Dealt to I am all yours 5♠ 6♠
Dealt to skoldpadda9 [2h 3d 7s] 4♦
Dealt to SG1fan 2♦ K♣
NUTUZZI bets $3
I am all yours calls $3
skoldpadda9

well there are atmost 6 cards u can hit to make a 7 low and 10 for an 8 low, and definately a few of those cards are in ur players hands, so realistically probably only have 4 cards (u can catch) to make a 7 low but with all those low cards out there a 9 or 10 low will probably be the winning hand but thats kinda getting ahead of ourselves
i would call about 50% of the time and raise 50% of the time, just to take control of the hand and would bet 5th if i hit a non 7 or 4 card that is 10 or lower and if they dont hit anything lower.

I like your approach of mixing calls and raises. I think in this instance, I'd lean towards a call simply to try to entice SGFan to stay in the hand and not give away the strength of my hand. But I think either approach is reasonable. With my plan for future streets being to encourage the short stacks to stay in through the end, I elect to call here almost always.

I'll await more input before giving further hand info.

omg didnt even notice they only had 24$ a peice at the sart, thought they were playing atleast 18bb , since there stacks are so short, calling is probably more likely to get there stacks in the end cause they both have only 2 and a half big bets and just calling down would put them all in, no need to raise
after further inspection, calling seems better

It's the dead cards that really make me think in this one.

First thing it makes me think is that at least one (and quite possibly both) of our villains are playing with bricks in the hole. They'll likely be getting carried away with the strength of their boards.

The dead cards also mean we're drawing a little thin though, which is unpleasant, and we're likely to hit one or more big ugly bricks before the hand is out.

I think I favour a raise on fourth street. Mostly it's on account of SG1fan - he completed initially so we've got to give him credit for some kind of hand. Hopefully the combination of a brick and a double bet will push him off it, as I really dunno if I want to chase against this many players with this few outs.

Nothing constructive to add; just want to note that I'm reading with interest, as someone who has only played Razz in play money Horse to date. It's still like trying to listen to someone with a strong accent, just trying to read the hands.

*** 4TH STREET ***
Dealt to NUTUZZI [5d] [2s]
Dealt to I am all yours [5s] [6s]
Dealt to skoldpadda9 [2h 3d 7s] [4d]
Dealt to SG1fan [2d] [Kc]
NUTUZZI bets $3
I am all yours calls $3
skoldpadda9 calls $3
SG1fan folds
*** 5TH STREET ***
Dealt to NUTUZZI [5d 2s] [6h]
Dealt to I am all yours [5s 6s] [3s]
Dealt to skoldpadda9 [2h 3d 7s 4d] [5c]
NUTUZZI bets $6
I am all yours calls $6
skoldpadda9

What do you make of the action on 5th? Do you think I'm ahead usually or behind?

Wow - nice boards.

That said, there are only nine cards six or under left in the deck (two aces, one deuce, two threes, three fours, a five) and given that SG1fan completed against those door cards, we've gotta figure at least one or two of those are dead as well. Your villains need to have two of the remaining cards that don't pair them in the hole to be ahead of you. If they've made a seven, yours is better, and if they've made an eight or worse, you're well ahead.

I still think at least one (and probably both) of them are playing with a brick or pair in the hole - there are just too few good cards and too many bad cards left in the deck for them not to be. 16% of the time you'll improve your hand to either a rough six or a wheel by the end of the hand as well. What's going to make our lives really hard is if they both catch well again on sixth.

So... if we're likely ahead, but vulnerable to draws, is this the time to put in a raise?

well with those 6$ bets they put in, they only have like 9$ each left so they are probably committed and with ur hand (which is probably the best hand) i would raise it up and try to get them to put there whole stack into the pot

*facepalm*

Oh yeah, stack sizes. Neither of them are folding then, unless they're criminally stupid. And neither are we, for the amount of money they've got left.

So I'll stick with my earlier action but change the reason. If we raise and one of them is stupid enough to fold then all well and good, but otherwise we're not going to fold this for $9 more with a 7-5, in an pot that's over $50. Try to get them in here and then it's in the hands of the evil and sadistic Razz gods.

skoldpadda said:

I like your approach of mixing calls and raises. I think in this instance, I'd lean towards a call simply to try to entice SGFan to stay in the hand and not give away the strength of my hand. But I think either approach is reasonable. With my plan for future streets being to encourage the short stacks to stay in through the end, I elect to call here almost always.

Click to expand...

to be honest, with those stacks sizes, your hand strength + size of the pot, i'd just raise - get the big stack out (no need to be greedy, and you don't want him getting right back into it on 5th) and then just see what the 3 of you end up with when all 7 cards are out. With the dead cards, I cant see you being behind both of your opponents, and you aren't going to be able to fold later streets unless you completely brick out.

skoldpadda said:

*** 4TH STREET ***
Dealt to NUTUZZI 5♦ 2♠
Dealt to I am all yours 5♠ 6♠
Dealt to skoldpadda9 [2h 3d 7s] 4♦
Dealt to SG1fan 2♦ K♣
NUTUZZI bets $3
I am all yours calls $3
skoldpadda9 calls $3
SG1fan folds
*** 5TH STREET ***
Dealt to NUTUZZI [5d 2s] 6♥
Dealt to I am all yours [5s 6s] 3♠
Dealt to skoldpadda9 [2h 3d 7s 4d] 5♣
NUTUZZI bets $6
I am all yours calls $6
skoldpadda9

What do you make of the action on 5th? Do you think I'm ahead usually or behind?

Click to expand...

Ahead, behind? God knows, it's guesswork really. If either have got a 7 they are behind you, and they could easily have paired up on either street.

Again, I wouldn't be analysing this, they've now only got $9 behind each, they aren't going to be folding even if they are drawing (and if they are, they are drawing really thin), and you've got a made hand 7,5 low on 5th street. Just raise them here and on later streets, and see if your hand is the best at showdown.