Omaha hand 2

Alon Ipser

Alon Ipser

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Ok, I think this was the very next hand. How many outs and what should I do?
 

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ChuckTs

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23 outs total
only 4 (2d,2h,5h,6h; any other outs will either give opponent a higher straight or a flush) outs to the absolute nuts though
i'd put your clubs as defensive clubs (opponents probably have higher flush draw)
but you have a pretty strong drawing hand
as for the odds it's 7.5 : 24 or 1 : 3.2 with better-than-that odds so it's worth a call i think
 
Alon Ipser

Alon Ipser

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I did call here. A [Kc] came on the river giving me a mediocre flush. Check, check, check and I split the pot with low.
 
ChuckTs

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oh this is H/L i didn't notice
that changes things...
 
Osmann

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Because this is H/L I would say this is a power muck. Chasing for half the pot is not something you want to do. And you are only chasing for the straights even though a flush may give you half the pot you can't call a huge bet on the river if you do hit your flush.

When this is said I hope you know that you have one of the worst possible starting hands in O8. It's like 92os in texas hold'em. I wouldn't even call a min-raise with this hand from the BB. When the flop comes, check/fold is what you should be doing.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

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Osmann said:
Because this is H/L I would say this is a power muck. Chasing for half the pot is not something you want to do. And you are only chasing for the straights even though a flush may give you half the pot you can't call a huge bet on the river if you do hit your flush.

Sums it up perfectly. Standard fold.
 
starfall

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Yup - although you had the nut high at that point, any black card was liable to cost you the high end, as could a 7, T, J or Q, and you had no chance of making the nut low.
As a result you were chasing the high end with a weak low. As it turned out calling down you happened to have the best low, but my interpretation of that hand is that you had a significant chance of getting scooped, while your chances of scooping were very small. If you were set one end or the other, then calling down could make sense, but you weren't set either end, and risked losing a relatively large amount of money for the likely gain. Folding would have been the right choice statistically.
 
Osmann

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Starfall, I think you need to read the original post again :)

1) He didn't have the high nuts, but was drawing to it.

2) He didn't win the hand with low, but with his 4th nut flush for high.

But your analysis was still correct :)
 
starfall

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Yeah, I didn't look carefully enough... without the nut high, definitely fold... even with a straight, the chances of being outdrawn on the high end were relatively high... you're right, it was drawing to non-nuts either end without a good hand already, which is fatal. Drawing hands are fine so long as you've a) got enough outs, b) are drawing to the nuts, and c) you're not drawing to one end with the likelihood of losing the other end. Anything else may win, but qualifies as a risky play... so Chucks statement about 4 good outs is right... in HoldEm you wouldn't generally expect the other player to have a better flush than you when 3 to a suit hit, but it's very common for a player to make a flush. Firstly, 36 out of 44 unknown cards are held by players - so any given card is over 80% likely to have been dealt to a player. Therefore it's likely that at least 3 of the 4 higher clubs were dealt to other players, and a fairly high chance that one of them will have paired that club. With the AX suited, a lot of players will see a flop with it, and suited Kings and Queens would see a flop if the other cards are suitably high, or if low cards are dealt - so quite often a 10-high flush will be dominated by 1 or more other hands.
 
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Alon Ipser

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Thanks everyone for the input. I went into this hand looking at all the possibilities. 2 different flush draws and all the hole cards connecting for all kinds of straight draw possibilities but what I failed to look at was that all these possibilities were mediocre at best "if" I did hit. I will be posting more hands because I do like this game and plan on improving my play.
 
Osmann

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I for one look forward to you posting more omaha hands, but it would be even better if you posted the hole hand history. It makes it easier to answer, and I'm pretty sure you made more than one mistake in this hand:) .
 
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