NL50 FR: TPNK + FD + OESD + Lots of Action on Turn

WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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BTN is 46/2/1 over 120 hands
BB is 27/10/25 over 50 hands

We've been pretty active something like 23/20/5 at the time of this hand (about 50 hands in).

Stacks:

UTG with $32.15
UTG+1 with $10.00
MP1 with $50.00
MP2 with $1.65
Hero with $149.10
CO with $112.35
BTN with $49.25
SB with $53.25
BB with $24.20
hand.pl

Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
Site: Full Tilt Poker
Dealt to Hero:7♣ A♣
Sklansky group 5
Preflop:
3 players fold.
Hero raises to $1.75
1 players fold.
BTN calls [$1.75]
1 players fold.
BB calls [$1.25]
Potsize: $5.50
Flop:
A♠ 6♥ 4♣
BB checks
Hero
checks
BTN checks
Potsize: $5.50
Turn:
5♣
BB bets [$1.50]
Hero
calls [$1.50]
BTN raises to $8
BB raises to $22.45,
Hero ???
 
kleitches

kleitches

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Here's what I would do. I'm certain my answer will get totally flamed for being a complete n00b, but here goes.

In my opinion, you're getting enormous pot odds for what could likely land you with the best hand. With all those outs and players willing to pad the pot, I would call and hope to peel 1) a club, giving us the nut flush or 2) one of our eight outs to the straight. Obviously we can't feel too strong about our weak ace, but honestly you're getting too good of odds. Of course I don't like having to call an all-in, I'd rather be the one raising in this spot, but in this situation I call.

Anyone else's thoughts on this?
 
BelgoSuisse

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Why don't you c-bet on the flop?

On the turn, I guess TPNK is not good. I'm not sure if your straight draws are live. It seems likely that at least one villain has a higher made straight already.

Against 87, you're 22% to win. Against a set or 32, you're 32%. Against 2 pairs you're 50%. Heads up against BB, I think it would be a call. But with a low aggressive BTN that has raised this turn and still needs to talk after you, i think I could find a fold here.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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There's $37.50 in the pot, and you're getting 1.7:1 pot odds. If we knew the button was coming along, we'd be getting ~2.7:1.

We're a 1:2.8 underdog against a range of only sets and straights against just the big blind. If he does this with two pair, we're a 1:1.85 dog. So if we're up against just the big blind, this is never a call.

If the button comes in, and both the button and the BB are sitting on sets, straights, or two pair, then we're a 1:2.6 underdog. If any of these guys can do this with just top pair or a draw, then it obviously becomes a snap call.

I think this just really depends on how the button has been playing. Against sane opponents who will only do this with a range of 2 pair+, this would be a pretty bad call. If they're loose & crazy, I could justify it. But I think this is a fold here.
 
BelgoSuisse

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Actually, it's even worse than that, because if BTN has a hand like set or straight, he'll come over the top when we call and our pot odds end up even worse.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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I put both their ranges about the same really: Ace-face, 2 pair, sets, and straights. So we're behind to everything in their likely ranges. If we call I full expect the BTN to either push or fold but never call.
 
BelgoSuisse

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If BB has Ace-face, he's playing it as horribly as possible.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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If BB has Ace-face, he's playing it as horribly as possible.

I think ace-face is possible. Say he checked the flop hoping to check-raise and then led out on the turn after no one bet the flop. Then when the BTN raises the turn he pushes putting him on a draw??

Ax is probably not a big part of the BTN's range because he likely would have bet the flop.
 
BelgoSuisse

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I think ace-face is possible. Say he checked the flop hoping to check-raise and then led out on the turn after no one bet the flop. Then when the BTN raises the turn he pushes putting him on a draw??

Ace face in BB should squeeze preflop, imo
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Ace face in BB should squeeze preflop, imo

Agreed but like I said I've been pretty active and aggressive so he could be trapping? This is actually the reason I didn't cbet. I thought I might get into trouble with my weak ace and wanted to see what the bb did if the button bet. Probably not the smartest play in the world but lately I've been doing plenty of dumb things.
 
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