KK what is the correct play?

Live, 1-2 NL dealt KcKh UTG+2

I raise 5xbb to $10 and get 4 callers, pot is $53. Flop comes QcJc4c. I lead out for $30 and get 2 callers behind, pot is now $143. Turn is Ks.

Villain #1 has $80 left in his stack and Villain #2 has stack of $200. I have $150 left.

What is the correct play?

I probably bet 2/3 pot and call a shove. Or just shove.

1) Breathe deep
2) Say prayer
3) Shove

Jam. You'll get calls from a ton of worse hands and draws. Even if you get called by a made straight or flush you have at least 10 outs on the river.

Do you know anything about the two players left to act? Loose, tight, tricky, straightforward, aggressive, passive..?

What's your own image?

If we're playing blind, I think shoving is the best play. If it's unlikely that the player with $200 has the Ac (and I don't mean combinatorically, I mean that he would have raised the flop if he did), then I think betting enough to put the shorter stack all-in and leave a bet for the river is best, because then you don't want him to fold. But without that read, by all means shove.

Thanks,

My image was tight...the table had been laggy, my cards were bad and I was waiting for a good hand.

I did end up shoving. My thought process was given the range of hands I could put villain(s) on there was some fold equity gained in a shove and even if I was called then I had 10 clean outs and technically up to 9 additional outs to hit the K high flush. If someone was drawing to the A high flush then my shove would be correct and even if by some chance villain had flopped the nut flush I still had my 10 outs for the full house.

So villain 1 calls and villain 2 folds after showing Ac. Villain 2 turns over 7c5c giving me 16 outs...I missed.

My main reason to post was just to confirm I made the right play. Only 19 days into the new year and I'm on one heck of a cold streak. Eventually you start second guessing yourself. So thanks for all the input.

Edit..I mean villain 2 folds Ac unknown second card and Villain 1 turns over 7c5c.

Keep your head up. Your kings can't fall to 7-5 all year!!

If I were in your position, I"ll just make a minimum bet and wait for the other player what will they do. If they fold or call, it means you have a high chance of winning. If someone made a raise, he just made a flush or he"s bluffing, that is for you to decide.

Honestly, if you shove, your stack is close enough to pot that it isn't an overbet. If you just make a 2/3 pot bet, your river bet is tiny to shove, and you are commited.

So I say just shove that shit and get it in. If someone already has the flush you have quite a few outs to hit a better flush (maybe) or a full house. Just get your money in now.

I would check and see where my hand stood.. Someone plays strong and goes all in you have a decision.. i would probably call.. Otherwise if it checks around wait out the river.. If someone makes a small raise on the turn check raise all in .. River will do 1 of 3 things.. 1) Make someones straight obvious to you. 2) Totally miss and relieve your stress or 3) give you an unbeatable hand.. Either the board will pair for a full house or hit the K for quads.. Either way there one of the others will think they hit the straight and you will own them..

I'd bet and if raised I would fold.

Theblueduce said:

I'd bet and if raised I would fold.

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Of all our options in this hand on the turn, that's by far the worst one. Mind explaining how you arrived at this conclusion?

Theblueduce said:

I'd bet and if raised I would fold.

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I like this answer so much I actually checked your fulltilt and pokerstars names on tableratings.com. Unfortunately we don't play the same stakes and so I can't buddylist you...

Seriously though, i hope you realise how horrible this would be. Villain could be semi-bluff raising with Ac and we would fold the best hand. He could have 2 pairs or an underset that he thinks he raises for value and we would fold the best hand. And even if he showed us a made flush or a made straight, we would still be getting good pot odds to call a raise and draw to a full house.

With a flop all clubs they were only ever going to call with a club in the pocket. You had a great hand and you did right by it. The turn made it even better. Don't feel that you could have played it any better. You were just unlucky and i hope alot of the comments on this thread give's you a big boost.

What a donk 7 5!!! THE JAMMIE *&%*&)(%!!! lol

would it have been possible to raise bigger pf? if 5xbb could be cold called by 4 people then a bigger raise was warranted, you definitely don't want KK vs four...

i don't fault the villain also for calling with 57s, he might have been the last guy to call with 4 people in the pot already, he had odds

In live games a raise 5 times BB means a good hand and everyone on the table knows it. You need a greater hand to beat it. The villian with 7 5 was trying his luck (pot odds or not) He will never be a winning player in the long run with calls like that.

Dr_Dick said:

Live, 1-2 NL dealt KcKh UTG+2

I raise 5xbb to $10 and get 4 callers, pot is $53. Flop comes QcJc4c. I lead out for $30 and get 2 callers behind, pot is now $143. Turn is Ks.

Villain #1 has $80 left in his stack and Villain #2 has stack of $200. I have $150 left.

What is the correct play?

Click to expand...

If I am in a tourney with lots of people I push all in, why you ask? Beacuse 99% of the time I get action and take dow a big pot. You get a bad beat once in a while but slow playing big hands is always a bad idea.

Dr_Dick said:

Live, 1-2 NL dealt KcKh UTG+2

I raise 5xbb to $10 and get 4 callers, pot is $53. Flop comes QcJc4c. I lead out for $30 and get 2 callers behind, pot is now $143. Turn is Ks.

Villain #1 has $80 left in his stack and Villain #2 has stack of $200. I have $150 left.

What is the correct play?

Click to expand...

I also don't prefer to see a flop with a big hand like that because K K does get cracked.

Well it is interesting to hear all the different opinions. I tend to agree with the push and was really just confirming my play was correct.

As for those who say 5xbb raise was not enough...well the fact I got 4 callers shows you are correct. However, my image was tight and given the table and my early position I was legitimately concerned a 5xbb raise would cause everyone to fold. Can KK get cracked...sure, but that doesn't mean I'm going to raise 15xbb and lose value. When I raised I wanted callers, just didn't expect 4 of them.

And villain with 75s calling a 5xbb raise immediately to the left of the raiser (me) is in my opinion a lousy call that got lucky. But, maybe villain had a better feel for the table and knew he would get multiple callers and figured he could make a play against me...who knows. I'm not ready to just dog villain for his play.

In the end, as many posters have confirmed the shove was correct.

Thanks

Pretty nice turn to you, you did right that you
raised preflop that 5x bb's.. You have three of a kind there
And a high flush draw, but somebody maybe have the Ace there :/
At turn, just bet 30$.
Gooodluck!!

FereZ,

Yes, somebody could have the A and that is why I shoved, to give them bad odds to hit their A high flush. And if for some reason villain had actually flopped an A high flush I still have 10 outs. As the hand played villain #2 actually turned over the Ac and then folded....so the push was correct in that it was large enough to give villain #2 improper odds. And actually, we want villain #2 to call without the odds, but villain #2 was smart enough to get away from the hand.