KK preflop w/ lots of action

bodog .10/.25 NL (no HH on bodog)

Table has been pretty tight, usually they just limp or call a single raise, never any re-raising before the flop

I'm in mid position with pocket Kings, UTG limped rest folded to me. I raised 3x BB, action folds to villian on the button who min-raises.

UTG calls, I re-raise to $4 (about the size of the pot), villian raises AGAIN to $12, UTG folds.


Can you really lay down kings here or do you shove and take your chances?

Wow. If table conditions what you say they are then I think im actually considering laying down here. In reality though, I shove.

It's like villain is on KK+, so you're in trouble. I think I lay this down if I think I can win more from the table later (probably about 80% time), otherwise shove and cry when you miss your set.

No way I can lay kings down here, or almost ever PF with 100BB stacks. Even if we're against aces, we're still going to win one in five times.

25NL + folding KK preflop = DOES NOT COMPUTE

I shoved, he had aces and they held up. The more I thought about it afterwards the more I thought I should of folded, it was pretty obvious he had aces, I don't think he'd re-raise twice with QQ or worse.

You'd be surprised how many times you'll see hands as bad as 99 here or worse. Just because a hand isn't normally in a person's range doesn't mean he won't go nuts with it once in a while.

Good shove.

Honestly, its happened 2 me like 4 times past month or two on 100NL, same betting pattern, my intial reaction was wanting to fold but i talked myself into calling and everytime they were aces.

When sometimes a tight or reasonably tight player does this, after you raise and reraise and hes reraising you small oop, i think its foldable, or you can call at some point and play for set value if youre still way deep

How much did you and your opponent have in front of you? If you both had around $36 or more (pot sized left after preflop), then I definitely wouldn't shove. I'd probably call and check/fold to a shove if an A or Q flops without a K. Otherwise, I'm coming out firing on the flop. If you shove preflop, he'd be a braindead moron to call with QQ. Then you'd be making a play that can only be called by an equal or dominant hand. In other words, if I'm playing this KK, I'm playing it in a way that can get paid off by QQ.

That is, of course, only if I decide not to fold preflop. A general rule of thumb is that 4th preflop raise or more in NL means KK+. That might go out the window in .1/.25 NL, but the way you're describing the table, it might not. I don't think it's a very big mistake either way.

For the record, I have folded KK preflop twice before (confirmed correct once), so I'm not just talking the talk here . Those were both more extreme cases than this, so I don't fault you for going with it.

I see AK do this here alot too, but the preflop actioon does smell alot like AA. Still tough to lay down kings.

lol. Ive seen players on nl$100, 5 bet shove AJ Just because AA is supposed to play this way dosnt mean other hands dont do it as well.
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-game-hand-analysis-50/100nl-hand-qq-vs-4-bet-shove-91175/

This is an absolute standard shove.

It's rare for the button to min-reraise. Even on the lowly .10-.25c it's very standard to see at least 3x. So there's a warning right there. I think the BIG reraise after the min-reraise says AA's more often than AK or QQ's or lower. Also, consider that at this point you have less than $5 in this pot. Even if he makes this move with AK %50 of the time, I think it's still the best move to fold. If you have the edge on him at the table you can find better (and more importantly) more profitable spots.

It might even be a good idea to show your muck to rattle him.

viking999 said:

How much did you and your opponent have in front of you?

Click to expand...

I had a little more than buy-in, around $28 - and he had a little less, $23ish. The flop was ragged so the chips were going in either way, I understand your logic though

i raise more than 3x after the limper

i'm still getting all the chips in there also