KJ off, UTG

Chiefer

Chiefer

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
4,886
Chips
0
pokerstars Game #9875648513: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2007/05/12 - 14:37:23 (ET)
Table 'Hakone' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: KitHeath ($2.95 in chips)
Seat 3: Phatberto ($4.84 in chips)
Seat 4: clintdeb ($1.05 in chips)
Seat 5: Chiefer77 ($2.86 in chips)
Seat 6: bigdom2010 ($1.99 in chips)
Seat 9: nardemon ($2.88 in chips)
Phatberto: posts small blind $0.01
clintdeb: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Chiefer77 [Kd Js]
Chiefer77: calls $0.02
bigdom2010: calls $0.02
nardemon: calls $0.02
KitHeath: folds
Phatberto: folds
clintdeb: checks
*** FLOP *** [2s Ks Jh]
clintdeb: checks
Chiefer77: checks
bigdom2010: checks
Harrison57 joins the table at seat #7
nardemon: bets $0.10
clintdeb: folds
Chiefer77: raises $0.40 to $0.50
bigdom2010: folds
nardemon: calls $0.40
*** TURN *** [2s Ks Jh] [Qs]
Chiefer77: checks
nardemon: bets $0.40

no reads, new to the table
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Total posts
12,422
Chips
0
since when does UTG = mid position? fold/raise preflop (given that we're new to the table I fold here).

as played i just call down from the turn.

edit: i fixed thread title
 
Last edited:
Chiefer

Chiefer

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
4,886
Chips
0
you're right, i was UTG, i couldn't remember and i didn't read the history, just posted it. wanny edit that for me?
 
Last edited:
joosebuck

joosebuck

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 14, 2006
Total posts
4,193
Chips
0
def call down if not fold. that's about the worst card you can see.
 
Chiefer

Chiefer

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
4,886
Chips
0
why fold, gamble, push and get paid off.

Chiefer77: raises $1.94 to $2.34 and is all-in
nardemon: calls $1.94
*** RIVER *** [2s Ks Jh Qs] [Th]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Chiefer77: shows [Kd Js] (two pair, Kings and Jacks)
nardemon: mucks hand
Chiefer77 collected $5.52 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $5.77 | Rake $0.25
Board [2s Ks Jh Qs Th]
Seat 1: KitHeath (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Phatberto (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: clintdeb (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: Chiefer77 showed [Kd Js] and won ($5.52) with two pair, Kings and Jacks
Seat 6: bigdom2010 folded on the Flop
Seat 9: nardemon mucked [Jd Qh]


got incredibly lucky.
 
skoldpadda

skoldpadda

Caveman Eye Surgeon
Bronze Level
Joined
Mar 20, 2007
Total posts
3,769
Awards
2
Chips
0
KJo UTG = insta-fold
 
skoldpadda

skoldpadda

Caveman Eye Surgeon
Bronze Level
Joined
Mar 20, 2007
Total posts
3,769
Awards
2
Chips
0
Trap hand. Too easily dominated by KQ, AK, AJ, JJ+. Really this hand will get you into too much trouble in early position. I have no problem playing it late position, but track your stats with it over 100 plays from early position and see what happens. You will lose with it.
 
Chiefer

Chiefer

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
4,886
Chips
0
you are most likely right, but with if i can limp in with it and catch one of my cards i have a good kicker to go with it. i'll call the blind in early position with that hand.
 
skoldpadda

skoldpadda

Caveman Eye Surgeon
Bronze Level
Joined
Mar 20, 2007
Total posts
3,769
Awards
2
Chips
0
Which brings up another good point -- never limp into an unopened pot. Always raise. Do it and see what happens. You can get the blinds many times if you're relatively tight player. And even if you're not, players will frequently give you credit for a bigger hand when you bet the flop since you raised pre-flop. Finally, if someone does have one of those hands that dominate you, you may get re-raised and be able to muck your hand at less cost than if you had called their bets down.
 
Chiefer

Chiefer

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
4,886
Chips
0
that is a good point, check this hand out, just happened a few minutes ago. limped in again.
PokerStars Game #9884648594: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2007/05/13 - 00:58:55 (ET)
Table 'Decabrina' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: grilled-chez ($1.69 in chips)
Seat 2: Chiefer77 ($2.95 in chips)
Seat 3: Cleee33 ($4.35 in chips)
Seat 4: Bejlmru ($4.89 in chips)
Seat 5: Jiggy Moe ($1.92 in chips)
Seat 6: canuckdude ($2.99 in chips)
Seat 7: nikos200960 ($4.56 in chips)
Seat 8: EngineJunkie ($4.98 in chips)
Seat 9: mudgo ($4.66 in chips)
Jiggy Moe: posts small blind $0.01
canuckdude: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Chiefer77 [Qd Kd]
nikos200960: calls $0.02
EngineJunkie: folds
mudgo: folds
grilled-chez: calls $0.02
Chiefer77: calls $0.02
Cleee33: calls $0.02
Bejlmru: folds
Jiggy Moe: calls $0.01
canuckdude: checks
*** FLOP *** [Kh Ks Qh]
Jiggy Moe: checks
canuckdude: folds
nikos200960: checks
grilled-chez: bets $0.12
Chiefer77: calls $0.12
Cleee33: calls $0.12
Jiggy Moe: folds
nikos200960: folds
*** TURN *** [Kh Ks Qh] [2s]
grilled-chez: bets $0.22
Chiefer77: calls $0.22
Cleee33: calls $0.22
*** RIVER *** [Kh Ks Qh 2s] [Tc]
grilled-chez: bets $0.32
Chiefer77: raises $2.27 to $2.59 and is all-in
Cleee33: folds
grilled-chez: calls $1.01 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Chiefer77: shows [Qd Kd] (a full house, Kings full of Queens)
grilled-chez: mucks hand
Chiefer77 collected $3.65 from pot
grilled-chez said, "nh"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $3.80 | Rake $0.15
Board [Kh Ks Qh 2s Tc]
Seat 1: grilled-chez mucked [3c Kc]
Seat 2: Chiefer77 showed [Qd Kd] and won ($3.65) with a full house, Kings full of Queens
Seat 3: Cleee33 folded on the River
Seat 4: Bejlmru (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Jiggy Moe (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: canuckdude (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 7: nikos200960 folded on the Flop
Seat 8: EngineJunkie folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: mudgo folded before Flop (didn't bet)
 
joosebuck

joosebuck

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 14, 2006
Total posts
4,193
Chips
0
micro doesnt count. trust us when we say that you do not limp even KQs from utg.
 
Chiefer

Chiefer

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
4,886
Chips
0
i like to trap, which is why i limp with that hand, and if someone raises i can feel comfortable calling depending on the amount of raise and position. if i don't hit my hand than oh well, fold fold fold.
 
S

Styrofoam

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 14, 2006
Total posts
635
Awards
1
Chips
3
listen to these guys man.

What happens if its reversed? You let K3 come in cheaply... the flop comes KK3. Now you have trips with the second kicker. You're absolutely not going to lay this down...in fact you're still likely going to push it. You lose here. You raise quality hands to thin the feild so that you don't allow inferior hands to catch up....

Trapping too often will backfire. I promise. Someone tried to trap me last night with aces. Min raised preflop and gave me odds to call with K9. As it stands, i made the second nuts on the flop, and doubled up on the hand. Sometimes beginners, and even intermediate players have a problem with trying to play way too fancy... it creates a gaping hole in your game...just try and play a typical TAG game at micros and you'll walk away a winner...At micro limits, trapping is pointless. just play Typical tight aggressive and you'll almost ALWAYS get paid off. you almost don't even need to change up your play at these limits.

And i agree...KJo utg is almost certainly a fold. But I don't blame you for limping here...I probably do sometimes too... but a raise is a MUCH stronger play.
 
t1riel

t1riel

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 20, 2005
Total posts
6,919
Awards
1
Chips
16
*** TURN *** [2s Ks Jh] Q♠
Chiefer77: checks
nardemon: bets $0.40

no reads, new to the table

Why did you check here? This is where you need to know where your opponent is at this point. Checking won't give you any information. There is now a flush AND straight draw. I would have put a bet a little bigger than the pot so he won't have odds to chase. If he calls or raises, I would consider folding unless another Jack or King comes up.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Total posts
12,422
Chips
0
i like to trap, which is why i limp with that hand, and if someone raises i can feel comfortable calling depending on the amount of raise and position. if i don't hit my hand than oh well, fold fold fold.

you really think KJo is a good enough hand to 'trap' with?

dunno about anyone else, but when an unknown limps in EP, KJo is right in the middle of my range for them, so how you can call it trapping when (a) it's a crap hand in EP, and (b) people will still put you on the hand as part of your range, i don't really know.
 
NineLions

NineLions

Advanced beginner
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Total posts
4,979
Chips
0
And limping invites the rest of the table in with any two cards.

For example, if the flop came J62, you've flopped top pair, decent kicker. But setting off a chaining of limping gives J6, J2s, even 62 from the SB or BB odds to play. Pretty much what Styrofoam was saying.

The reverse is not always true; raising won't guarantee that those hands won't play. But makes them much more unlikely, and you can put notes on those players that call your preflop raise with those kinds of hands.


I'm guessing that by "trapping" you're trying to play KJo like a middle pair, increasing the pot size, throwing away the hand if it doesn't hit. But like DM says, in EP it'll lose you more than it'll win for you, especially in big multiway pots when you hit one pair.
 
Top