JJ late position... very weird action

moose and havid are really really bad calling stations. something like 55/3/6 and 72/8/1

mspitolai is 24/6/8 over about 70 hands


Seat 1: Kfuse ($29.85 in chips)
Seat 2: Tygran37 ($25 in chips)
Seat 3: Kleffy ($7.05 in chips)
Seat 4: "HAVID" ($21.55 in chips)
Seat 5: justlikejon ($23.90 in chips)
Seat 6: achiles23 ($25.60 in chips)
Seat 7: The Moose 48 ($18.55 in chips)
Seat 8: DrNikRiviera ($5.75 in chips)
Seat 9: mspitolai ($32.75 in chips)
justlikejon: posts small blind $0.10
achiles23: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Tygran37 [Js Jc]
The Moose 48: calls $0.25
DrNikRiviera: folds
mspitolai: calls $0.25
Kfuse: folds
Tygran37: raises $1.25 to $1.50
Kleffy: folds
"HAVID": calls $1.50
justlikejon: folds
achiles23: folds
The Moose 48: calls $1.25
justlikejon is sitting out
mspitolai: raises $2.50 to $4
Tygran37: ???



First question, what do you do with this preflop?

looks like its become a very profitable setmining hand. What does a 6% raiser reraise with here? call

What do you think is your image at this point? You have $25 exactly so did you just top-up or reload after a big loss? What is your preflop 3-bet % at this table?

You can't just call as those 2 behind may feel they have odds to keep playing. You want it to be HU if you decide to play the hand. I wouldn't fault a fold here as you'd be OOP to the opponent. I would raise to $10 here to get the 2 behind out and I could fold to a shove.

If you flat call then you are essentially set mining and if the 2 behind also call, you'd be betting more than $10 on the flop anyway.

I was something like 18/8/4 over 40 hands or so... hadn't been involved in too many hands... picked up the blinds a couple times, lost a buck or two...

No big hands, fairly tight image at this point.

I reloaded like .75 or something right before this hand

Call and hope the 2 stations come along. I'd say mspitolai's range is pretty narrow so you're likely behind or flipping here. If even one of your idiots call as well you'll likely have good odds to take 2 stacks if you hit your set.

I like the set-mining line. You're in position against the likely overpair and getting great pot odds if the stragglers come along. Just don't get tempted to stay in if the flop is all low.

I think 4-betting is a losing play against almost any opponent here (and pretty certainly against a 24/6). I don't see any limp/reraise hand folding to a 4-bet, and a full sized 4-bet commits you to the pot (about half your stack in there). While this includes AK, you're so small a favorite you can't make up for the times you're a horrible underdog. Also, there are more possible AA, KK, QQ hands than there are AK's.

Jillychemung said:

I would raise to $10 here to get the 2 behind out and I could fold to a shove.

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I don't understand why you'd do this, you either leave $10 in pot or likely see overcards almost half in. I think we're likely behind the reraiser, if so we need to hit our set and might as well let awful calling stations catch something. An overpair and garbage 2 pr vs set would be nice. The reraise to only $4 is strange though, what is that? I have the best hand and i want to play it 4way?

D'wilius said:

I don't understand why you'd do this

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I'm the initial raiser and repopping it to $10 should narrow my range to my opponents to QQ+/AK. Now the calling stations in seats 4&7 will have to commit half their stacks just to see the flop so I expect them to go away 90% of the time. Seat 9's limp/raise is either a weak squeeze/isolation attempt or a trapping AA. Unless I've seen seat 9 trap before, at this level, I'm gonna side more to the weak squeeze and a range of 99+, AQs+, AKo. So I figure I have about a 30% chance to take the pot right now with my raise to $10, 60% chance seat 9 will flat call and 10% chance seat 9 will shove. Then on the flop since I have position on seat 9 I can evaluate what he does vs the flop texture keeping in mind that I've set my image to a big hand.

If I flat call this to set mine then I'm just drawing to 2 cards and even those 2 could be forfeited w/ a FD or SD on the flop w/ 4 players. I think 90% of the time I'll be folding my JJ on the flop. Plus calling behind after my initial raise really should narrow my range, to opponents, down to 88/99/TT/JJ/AK. And I could also see seat 4 or 7 with their smaller stacks try a shove w/ seat 9's weak raise and my weak raise/call. Now on the flop if any of the 3 hit a piece of it I expect I'll be faced with a 1/2 pot bet or more so if I do hit my set I'll have my stack committed if I play further and the flop could still be very bad.

So I like to play a bit more aggressively, I like my line better than the IMHO weaker line of calling behind to set mine. I like setting the pace here and think I can make things happen with my position.

Alright, thanks for the explanation. I would think a trap is a more basic move than a squeeze, but if you're right about % to take down right away vs % you face a shove your move makes sense.

D'wilius said:

Alright, thanks for the explanation. I would think a trap is a more basic move than a squeeze, but if you're right about % to take down right away vs % you face a shove your move makes sense.

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And this is what makes the debate interesting, what we expect $25NL players to do. I'm certainly no expert so I'd love to hear others opinions based on their play at $25NL.