Jacked off... by ducks

zebranky

zebranky

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a bit after a massive pots with trip queens...
2/3 NLHE, 100 buyin. I've got around $700 on the button, BB is a bully with around $1300, MP is a new player with $95 (folded his blinds). LP doesn't matter except he called the PF.

hole cards - [Jh][Js]

MP calls, I raise to 15, BB calls, MP calls, LP calls.

$62 in the pot.
flop comes [5s][4c][2h]
SB bets 20, MP calls, LP folds.
I raise to 80 (over pair, low flop, right?) willing to take the pot before more cards come out.
SB folds, MP calls all-in.

Turn/River [Ks][2c]

final hands - Jacks over dueces for me.
MP has A2 for triple ducks, A high.
I lose just shy of 100 bucks on Jacks - I should know better!
 
zebranky

zebranky

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let me rephrase my final hand - I just realized how confusing that is - two pair, J and 2 (the local guys call two pair, jacks up as "jacks over," but I then remembered most people think Fullhouse when they hears that phrase...)

sorry for any confusion!
 
loopmeister

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final hands - Jacks over dueces for me.
MP has A2 for triple ducks, A high.
I lose just shy of 100 bucks on Jacks - I should know better!

When you say you should know better, you mean you should have folded to a set? Should 22 / 44 / 55 even have been in this hand? Or A3 for that matter?

Or should you have been scared of QQ / KK / AA?

Without being result-oriented, I don't see how you could be that upset with this play. MP made 2 mistakes, the pf call and the all-in bluff- and got lucky.
 
Vintage82

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I thought the thread might be about something entirely different with a title like that....................:D
 
zebranky

zebranky

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Where I went wrong...

When you say you should know better, you mean you should have folded to a set? Should 22 / 44 / 55 even have been in this hand? Or A3 for that matter?

Or should you have been scared of QQ / KK / AA?

Without being result-oriented, I don't see how you could be that upset with this play. MP made 2 mistakes, the pf call and the all-in bluff- and got lucky.

I made two mistakes here that seem obvious in retrospect, without the benefit of hindsight.

with a JJ, raise to 5xBB is pretty sloppy. There's two ways to play this PF - pretend its a small/medium pair and call or small raise it, or try to take the PF pot by overbetting. by betting 5x (I don't know what I was thinking), all I'm doing is making it so only the hands most likely to beat me are calling, without pushing any of those hands out.

2nd - keep an eye on the stack sizes. Pot is 60ish PF, and I raise 80 on the flop after a bet and call. Against a deep stack, this is fine. But look at it from MP's point of view:
35 of his 95 chips are committed. The pot at this stage is 180, and he only need to put in 60 to get in, with no chance of losing more (because he's all in). Lets assume he puts me on a pocket pair higher than the board, but not AA. He's got 9 outs (two 2's, three A's, four 3's) for a better hand. 9 outs is roughly a 35% chance of hitting the turn or river - so he's priced in. Even if he didn't pair the board, he still has 7 outs -enough outs to justify a call. Basically, any Ace is going to call here.
 
Lo-Dog

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I made two mistakes here that seem obvious in retrospect, without the benefit of hindsight.

with a JJ, raise to 5xBB is pretty sloppy. There's two ways to play this PF - pretend its a small/medium pair and call or small raise it, or try to take the PF pot by overbetting. by betting 5x (I don't know what I was thinking), all I'm doing is making it so only the hands most likely to beat me are calling, without pushing any of those hands out.

2nd - keep an eye on the stack sizes. Pot is 60ish PF, and I raise 80 on the flop after a bet and call. Against a deep stack, this is fine. But look at it from MP's point of view:
35 of his 95 chips are committed. The pot at this stage is 180, and he only need to put in 60 to get in, with no chance of losing more (because he's all in). Lets assume he puts me on a pocket pair higher than the board, but not AA. He's got 9 outs (two 2's, three A's, four 3's) for a better hand. 9 outs is roughly a 35% chance of hitting the turn or river - so he's priced in. Even if he didn't pair the board, he still has 7 outs -enough outs to justify a call. Basically, any Ace is going to call here.

Yup I think you got it. We have to to figure the stacks of our opponents into the plays we make. Knowing that he will get to see the hand to showdown with no more money in gives him the odds to call (depending on the range he puts you on, not going to do the math at work, but I have been practising so I can do it now!)
 
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