Did I play this hand right?

biaavia

biaavia

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Of course Im not a pro player,but I wouldt go all in on flop)))))Becouse I was in same situations many times and now play draw very accyracy.All in all nice coin flip.Pity that it is not in your favor((((((
 
pescaofish

pescaofish

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As I see it the BB was 0.10 you bet 1.50 thats 15 BB, way too much, I would have bet 3 to 5 BB will be wiser.
After the Flop I would have used the C bet, another 1.50 at the most and then he goes All in and will realize he has the nuts and should have Folded :banghead: !
 
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Daithi

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As I see it the BB was 0.10 you bet 1.50 thats 15 BB, way too much, I would have bet 3 to 5 BB will be wiser.
After the Flop I would have used the C bet, another 1.50 at the most and then he goes All in and will realize he has the nuts and should have Folded :banghead: !


I am sorry, but are you serious? 5bb? There was a raise of 3bb and a caller. That means I could not even raise 5bb, my min raise would be 6bb; which would give favourable odds to call to everyone and would not serve as a deterrent. My standard 3bet would be 3x time original raise, there was a caller and I was OOP, 5 x times the raise was almost textbook. Yes, you could argue that AQ is not a hand to do it with. For that reason I have shared the villains stats and how often he was 4betting, based on a small sample.

The Preflop play was fine. Your recommendation sounds really bad actually.


Postflop. I knew he'd reraise the Cbet and i would be pot comitted anyway. I had no idea he had AA of course. I was hoping for Fold equity, and my Flop equity was 38%, pot odds were giving 32%; which makes it a good call.
 
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Daithi

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According to my calculations that move made a +EV €3.65, so how could be wrong. If it is was incorrect play I am open to corrections.
 
starting_at_the_bottom

starting_at_the_bottom

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I believe I have played the hand well to be honest.

How exactly? Bloating the pot out of position with AQ?


Fold pre oop vs a 4bet, at 10nl and below a 4bet is rarely anything other than AA/KK. Which one of these do we beat?

Neither


Given we have called, why are we are donking out the pot? Which hand are we getting value from? AA or KK?

Neither
 
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Daithi

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How exactly? Bloating the pot out of position with AQ?


Fold pre oop vs a 4bet, at 10nl and below a 4bet is rarely anything other than AA/KK. Which one of these do we beat?

Neither


Given we have called, why are we are donking out the pot? Which hand are we getting value from? AA or KK?

Neither

I agree that the hand should have been prevalently folded, but you selectively ignore that he had very high 4 bet, although it wasn't the largest sample. But sure, let's agree on Preflop. It should have been folded.

Postflop: Hey I still had +EV shoving on the Flop. Tell me right here, mathematically that it had -EV. Saying stuff doesn't count, prove it!
 
starting_at_the_bottom

starting_at_the_bottom

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I agree that the hand should have been prevalently folded, but you selectively ignore that he had very high 4 bet, although it wasn't the largest sample. But sure, let's agree on Preflop. It should have been folded.

Postflop: Hey I still had +EV shoving on the Flop. Tell me right here, mathematically that it had -EV. Saying stuff doesn't count, prove it!

1) Sample size isnt that large.

2) Why dont you prove shove is +VE? What range do you put them on? Besides, just because they 4bet a lot (ignoring small sample sizes), doesnt mean they are just going to call it off with worst hands post flop.

I dont need to provide stats to show you are -VE on the flop. Its pretty obvious if I give villain a range of AA/KK (or even AK).
 
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makrarom

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Few questions here. What is "+VE, -VE, +EV, -EV" ?

About the play itself, I don't know about preflop. I would've folded because of his big reraise.

One thing that's bothering me is, why did you shove post flop? You have a chance to make a flush, why not just check and see what he does? If he decides to bet/shove , then argue about calling.
 
DrazaFFT

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I cant open the replayer with the phone, is it possible to see hwnd history. I would love to see it and try to calculate myself
 
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Daithi

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I cant open the replayer with the phone, is it possible to see hwnd history. I would love to see it and try to calculate myself


Sure.


***** Hand History for Game 1111111111 *****
€10.00 EUR NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, March 31, 07:24:26 ET 2016
Table (real money)
Seat 5 is the button
Seat 1: Player1 ( €8.10 EUR ) - VPIP: 37, PFR: 7, 3B: 0, AF: 4.3, Hands: 70
Seat 2: Player2 ( €10.00 EUR ) - VPIP: 27, PFR: 16, 3B: 5, AF: 2.7, Hands: 436
Seat 3: Player3 ( €15.64 EUR ) - VPIP: 36, PFR: 17, 3B: 8, AF: 3.1, Hands: 265
Seat 4: Player4 ( €5.27 EUR ) - VPIP: 52, PFR: 2, 3B: 5, AF: 2.7, Hands: 46
Seat 5: Player5 ( €32.61 EUR ) - VPIP: 21, PFR: 11, 3B: 1, AF: 1.6, Hands: 723
Seat 8: Hero ( €10.00 EUR ) - VPIP: 24, PFR: 17, 3B: 6, AF: 2.1, Hands: 7768
Hero posts small blind [€0.05 EUR].
Player1 posts big blind [€0.10 EUR].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Ad Qd ]
Player2 raises [€0.30 EUR]
Player3 folds
Player4 calls [€0.30 EUR]
Player5 folds
Hero raises [€1.45 EUR]
Player1 folds
Player2 raises [€3.10 EUR]
Player4 folds
Hero calls [€1.90 EUR]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3d, 5d, Ks ]
Hero bets [€6.60 EUR]
Player2 calls [€6.60 EUR]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 8s ]
** Dealing River ** [ 7s ]
Player2 wins €19.04 EUR from main pot
Player2 shows [Ah, As ]
 
DrazaFFT

DrazaFFT

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I can't do it right now, will do it later.
3bet should be to 1.2, i dont like c4b he 4bets against a sqz he gotta be super strong. As played i dont think thatbi would ever donk shove there, tho i did it in the past a lot.
Ill get back with the calculation but it might be really dificult if i dont find good android equity calc: D
 
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Daithi

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1) Sample size isnt that large.

2) Why dont you prove shove is +VE?

I dont need to provide stats to show you are -VE on the flop. Its pretty obvious if I give villain a range of AA/KK (or even AK).

Ok, I will.

This is from HEM 2 hand replayer. AQ equity vs AA on the Flop.

AdQd (38%)
AhAs (62%)
on board of 3d 5d Ks

Pot is 7.20 and effective stack is 6.60.

So:

0.38 * 20.40 = 7.752
0.62 * -6.60 = -4.092
7.752-4.092 = 3.66 +EV
 
DrazaFFT

DrazaFFT

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The calculation is wrong.
Why dont you count fold equity? He will fold some od his range. But let say that fe is 0 you still shouldnt do .62x6.6. Why would you do that? Youre investing 6.6 every time not 62% of the time...
 
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Daithi

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The calculation is wrong.
Why dont you count fold equity? He will fold some od his range. But let say that fe is 0 you still shouldnt do .62x6.6. Why would you do that? Youre investing 6.6 every time not 62% of the time...

I am investing 100% of the time. 62% of the time I lose the investment and 38% I win the investment with everything else. Once it is part of the pot it's not yours!

http://www.splitsuit.com/simple-poker-expected-value-formula
 
DrazaFFT

DrazaFFT

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You win the whole pot 38% of the time, investing your bt evey time, plain and simple.
Re read the article again, it uses diferent formula where the $W is not the whole pot but just the net won
 
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Daithi

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You win the whole pot 38% of the time, investing your bt evey time, plain and simple.
Re read the article again, it uses diferent formula where the $W is not the whole pot but just the net won


I win the whole pot (20.40) 38% of the time and invest 6.60 everytime. So?
 
DrazaFFT

DrazaFFT

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So its (pot x equity)-bet
(20.4x0.38)-6.6=7.7-6.6=1.1$ev
 
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Daithi

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So its (pot x equity)-bet
(20.4x0.38)-6.6=7.7-6.6=1.1$ev

No, EV is the outcome on average. You are mixing up EV equation with pot odds equation. Please research in poker books or on the web how to calculate EV. You will find the equation I have presented.
 
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Daithi

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So its (pot x equity)-bet
(20.4x0.38)-6.6=7.7-6.6=1.1$ev


Even the 6.60 you say I pay 100% of the times.

Expressed as EV it no longer is 6.60.

0.62 * -6.60 = -4.092 because on Average I am not losing the whole 6.60

Conversely I will not be winning the whole 20.40 on average either.
 
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Daithi

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I dont need to provide stats to show you are -VE on the flop. Its pretty obvious if I give villain a range of AA/KK (or even AK).

So I ran the hand vs range AA,KK, AKs and AKo

65.4% vs 34.5%

still showing 2.7 +EV

So, I have presented my argument empirically. Your turn.....
 
DrazaFFT

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Dude you need to start paying attention here...
First of all
money won=/=total pot
Money won is total pot minus your bet or pot before your bet plus the amount he call. So money won here is 7.05+6.6 money lost is your bet.
That being said
0.38x(7.05+6.6)-0.62x6.6=.38x13.65-4.09=5.187-4.09=1.095$ev

Well you got one thing right, it was actually +ev play, everything elese tho from way you played to way you calculated was wrong...

Re read the article you postes to me

GL at the tables
 
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