I know i'm beat, but can I still call this?

naruto_miu

naruto_miu

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This was one hand that really made me feel, as if I played the hand, just poorly from the get go. Long story short, the table we were at (If image matterd, ours was shot:D ), the table was so passive, and so, stationary, that to me, I knew, these ppl would not make moves unless they had monster hands, but I also as dumb as if sounds, had a monster draw

pokerstars Game #20660777422: Hold'em No Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2008/09/24 14:36:11 ET
Table 'Beagle II' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: \iceman XII/ ($9.90 in chips)
Seat 2: Gore_2 ($9.70 in chips)
Seat 3: Brassenkopf ($9.05 in chips)
Seat 4: quinn fan ($9.50 in chips)
Seat 5: abdi122 ($5.95 in chips)
Seat 6: mr.prez77 ($2 in chips)
Seat 7: roadtar ($10.90 in chips)
Seat 8: pello35 ($3.85 in chips)
Seat 9: ache1983 ($13.95 in chips)
pello35: posts small blind $0.05
ache1983: posts big blind $0.10
mr.prez77: posts small blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to abdi122 [Th Js]
\iceman XII/: calls $0.10
Gore_2: raises $0.40 to $0.50
Brassenkopf: calls $0.50
quinn fan: folds
abdi122: calls $0.50
mr.prez77: folds
roadtar: folds
pello35: folds
ache1983: folds
\iceman XII/: calls $0.40
*** FLOP *** [Qs 4s Ks]
\iceman XII/: checks
Gore_2: checks
Brassenkopf: bets $1
abdi122: calls $1
\iceman XII/: raises $5 to $6
Gore_2: folds
Brassenkopf: raises $2.55 to $8.55 and is all-in

Should we fold, I understand, that we should've been out of the hand preflop, but honestly, I took so many blinds from other tables, that I was playing at, that to me, peeling this of preflop, was'nt really the worst of calls I've seen at this limit, plus I knew that if the flop, were to miss them, that I probably, could've stolen it:D ?

What can we really put them on, and if so, can we really fold this on this flop?
 
widowmaker89

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Im not sure I can see a call here, both players are showing they at least have As or a set or a made flush. the flush is pretty obvious here and they arent worried about it, I dont think you can call this, chances are too high someone either has a flush or the A and you are in bad shape if thats the case, you can get out cheap here, do it.
 
naruto_miu

naruto_miu

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Im not sure I can see a call here, both players are showing they at least have As or a set or a made flush. the flush is pretty obvious here and they arent worried about it, I dont think you can call this, chances are too high someone either has a flush or the A and you are in bad shape if thats the case, you can get out cheap here, do it.

but that's the thing, judging by the way the betting went I was fairly confident, (that none of them really had the flush, or the ace of spades to boot), I would honestly say in this hand, that I was about 85-90% sure, they didn't have it
 
Poof

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I think that if they didn't have the flush or str8, I would almost guarantee they paired their K or Q?
 
naruto_miu

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I think that if they didn't have the flush or str8, I would almost guarantee they paired their K or Q?

Ya that's an obvious one:D , I mean personally I put I put on on a set, and the other on 2 pair, or a set, and over pairs, something of that nature, but then again, would calling the allin be justifyable?
 
widowmaker89

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You have to put people on ranges, and those hands certainly hit their ranges considering the betting on the flop. What makes you 90% they dont have a flush or the As? What do you hope they have?
 
widowmaker89

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So you put them on an overpair(AA) but are 90% sure one isnt a spade? The preflop raiser isnt even in this hand so I dont consider a set a big part of their range since QQ and KK are probably raising, so what 44? So a set and AA are all unlikely, which is why the flush is certainly in their range.

You are getting odds on 44, kq(which is the only hand in your range than really makes sense, not that these people have to make sense however). If someone has AA(non spade) and 44 then you are still getting odds but barely. If someone has As or a made flush you are in a lot of trouble.
 
naruto_miu

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Well that's the thing, I personally put one on 44(That's the only hand, I could see, flattening a rasie), as for the other like stated before, kq, maybe AA but then again, that's just depends on ppls style of play, like I told you in my opening line these ppl were very passive players, so that made thing alot easier to judge it by, also, the reason i'm 85-90% certain, is that a peson with the nut flush draw, (maybe, don't get me wrong, would'nt really be raising with a 4 flush draw, but then again, that's just me, and from what i've seen from these players, that wasn't really there style at all), so if we break down there only plausable holdings, that then is really only kq, and 44, if that's the case then all there outs combined only equal up to 5 on the flop, plus and extra 3 on the turn, which is only 11, taking this into account there what 22% on the turn if they don't, pair the board, and make the boat! but that's how I seen it at that moment. Maybe that was alittle wishful thinking on my part, but it's hands, like these that give me the most trouble, but and really if I had to do it again, I would still call, if I had that type of a read on the players, i'm up against that is!
 
widowmaker89

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So if they are so passive why cant they have a flush or something like AsK. They c/r and 3bet all in, hardly passive, so you dont put them on a hand? I agree 44 and KQ make sense but really stop putting people on 1 hand, they have a range. Would a flush do this? You think someone slowplayed AA is a posibility, well if one is a spade you are in very bad shape.
 
naruto_miu

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So if they are so passive why cant they have a flush or something like AsK. They c/r and 3bet all in, hardly passive, so you dont put them on a hand? I agree 44 and KQ make sense but really stop putting people on 1 hand, they have a range. Would a flush do this? You think someone slowplayed AA is a posibility, well if one is a spade you are in very bad shape.


Ya that's one of the things, I definatley need to work on, but for the most part, I think I played the hand pretty ok, but the preflop call was horrific, but on that flop, I mean, what more could I ask for?:D
 
naruto_miu

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but this is how the hand, went down, so I mean, I'm not happy with it, but then again, I can only blame myself, since I chose to make the preflop call, none-the-less, it's all good

PokerStars Game #20660777422: Hold'em No Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2008/09/24 14:36:11 ET
Table 'Beagle II' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: \iceman XII/ ($9.90 in chips)
Seat 2: Gore_2 ($9.70 in chips)
Seat 3: Brassenkopf ($9.05 in chips)
Seat 4: quinn fan ($9.50 in chips)
Seat 5: abdi122 ($5.95 in chips)
Seat 6: mr.prez77 ($2 in chips)
Seat 7: roadtar ($10.90 in chips)
Seat 8: pello35 ($3.85 in chips)
Seat 9: ache1983 ($13.95 in chips)
pello35: posts small blind $0.05
ache1983: posts big blind $0.10
mr.prez77: posts small blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to abdi122 [Th Js]
\iceman XII/: calls $0.10
Gore_2: raises $0.40 to $0.50
Brassenkopf: calls $0.50
quinn fan: folds
abdi122: calls $0.50
mr.prez77: folds
roadtar: folds
pello35: folds
ache1983: folds
\iceman XII/: calls $0.40
*** FLOP *** [Qs 4s Ks]
\iceman XII/: checks
Gore_2: checks
Brassenkopf: bets $1
abdi122: calls $1
\iceman XII/: raises $5 to $6
Gore_2: folds
Brassenkopf: raises $2.55 to $8.55 and is all-in
abdi122: calls $4.45 and is all-in
\iceman XII/: calls $2.55
*** TURN *** [Qs 4s Ks] [Kh]
*** RIVER *** [Qs 4s Ks Kh] [As]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
\iceman XII/: shows [4h 4d] (a full house, Fours full of Kings)
Brassenkopf: shows [Qd Kc] (a full house, Kings full of Queens)
Brassenkopf collected $5.90 from side pot
abdi122: mucks hand
Brassenkopf collected $17.65 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $24.75 Main pot $17.65. Side pot $5.90. | Rake $1.20
Board [Qs 4s Ks Kh As]
Seat 1: \iceman XII/ showed [4h 4d] and lost with a full house, Fours full of Kings
Seat 2: Gore_2 folded on the Flop
Seat 3: Brassenkopf showed [Qd Kc] and won ($23.55) with a full house, Kings full of Queens
Seat 4: quinn fan folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: abdi122 mucked [Th Js]
Seat 6: mr.prez77 folded before Flop
Seat 7: roadtar (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: pello35 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: ache1983 (big blind) folded before Flop
 
naruto_miu

naruto_miu

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and my intention wasn't oh look at me, i'm so horrible when it comes to drawing out on others, or like it was a BB, because this really is'nt a BB, but my intention, was overall was this a good call on the flop, I mean, I understand, 100% it was a Mega Bad Call preflop, but on this flop? That's questionalbe!
 
widowmaker89

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I mean preflop isnt really a big deal, but your call on the flop was not good. These are the only hands in their range that you are getting odds on, and this is certainly not their entire range. There is no way you were 90% sure they didnt have a flush, thats just rediculous. How many hands you have on these people? Do you even have stats? The faster you start thinking in ranges instead of hands the better off you will be. This will be a flush or at least a flush draw a lot of the time.

I am sorry if I am comming across harsh, im not trying to but this is really a bad call.
 
naruto_miu

naruto_miu

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I mean preflop isnt really a big deal, but your call on the flop was not good. These are the only hands in their range that you are getting odds on, and this is certainly not their entire range. There is no way you were 90% sure they didnt have a flush, thats just rediculous. How many hands you have on these people? Do you even have stats? The faster you start thinking in ranges instead of hands the better off you will be. This will be a flush or at least a flush draw a lot of the time.

I am sorry if I am comming across harsh, im not trying to but this is really a bad call.

I don't find you coming across as being harsh at all, honestly speaking I posted this hand to find out what other's on here thought about the hand overall
 
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