This is a discussion on Did I just get exploited by an overbet? within the online poker forums, in the Cash Game Hand Analysis section; Did I really just get Exploited by an overbet?
partypoker - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
I view BB as a solid winning SLAG who is over a small 2k sample is (19bb/100) I know it's a small sample but I've played with him enough to know he crushes 5nl. And he's definitely doing this by exploiting his opponents.
villain probably views me as a solid reg as well based on win rate and past hand experiences. Also views me as TAG but I can be a bit passive post flop oop especially vs aggressive opponents.
Does this overbet mean only nutted hands? Two pair+?
Or is there a huge chance because my range is capped in this spot 9/10 times and I have so few combos ott that can call or raise vs this sizing. Villain could be exploiting me.
It also seemed like villain was setting up for a river jam based on turn sizing. So maybe discount some chance of him having total air. And to overbet w/ a draw makes more sense than betting pot would given the additional fold equity villain obtains from the overbet. And If I call a pot sized bet ott it means that on a brick riv I probably don't fold. So to get me to fold out almost my entire range on single turn bet instead of having me possibly call down turn and river with my most of my Kx well that's just genius bet sizing.
Maybe I'm overthinking the situation and this guy isn't a genius and really did have a nutted hand by the turn and wanted to protect his equity on this super wet board. But there is a possibility he did exploit me and if he did could very well have had any 2 cards and still shown a profit.
So I guess my new question is how often should we be x/c vs x/r vs just betting are nutted hands on wet boards like this one to achieve a good balance and be less exploitable.
Similar Threads for: Did I just get exploited by an overbet?
Something I have discovered is that considering overbets and ever NEEDING to hero call is a trait that is NECESSARY for a TOURNAMENT GRINDER but nearly never-relevant unless vs. a blatant LAG as a CASH GAME GRINDER.
The reason is the need to profit in X amount of hands is much increased in tournaments whereas due to the infinite nature of cash games and the fact you can even run away from tables with players who habitually do this (whether specifically to you or not) it's basically a non sequitur to hero call an overbet in cash games vs a remotely tight-appearing player but if you notice them jam you twice in a row and seem to specifically be targeting you, I'd leave the table as such players tend to never be multi-tabling so playing around their 'dominion' is quite easy.
November 5th, 2017, 3:24 PM
No kidding but if you ever want move up stakes your going to be facing overbets. And if a 5nl grinder can exploit you imagine what the regs at 100nl would do to you. Therefore your going to need have an overbet defense strategy or else someone can just use the ob every time vs your capped range. And if you never call vs there polarized ob's then they can still exploit you time and time again knowing your not gonna do shit w/o the nuts. and expect to get generate like 90% folds which is an auto profit spot for them. You can not allow opponents to auto profit off you or else they are litterally printing money using you as the ink.
And if my range wasn't so capped ott this wouldn't even be worth posting about but the fact I literally never have 66,1010,KK,K10,K6
or the straight in this spot makes it easy for a thinking player to exploit me. My question wasn't "how often should we call overbets". It was more along the lines of how do we come up with a strategy vs are opponents to ensure their overbets don't generate an auto profit. Never call/run away isn't a solution.
November 5th, 2017, 3:27 PM
Rational Madman [2,479]
Online Poker at: PokerStars
Game: HE NL always
re: Poker & Did I just get exploited by an overbet?
Originally Posted by B3ck
No kidding but if you ever want move up stakes your going to be facing overbets. And if a 5nl grinder can exploit you imagine what the regs at 100nl would do to you. Therefore your going to need have an overbet defense strategy or else someone can just use the ob every time vs your capped range. And if you never call vs there polarized ob's then they can still exploit you time and time again knowing your not gonna do shit w/o the nuts. and expect to get generate like 90% folds which is an auto profit spot for them. You can not allow opponents to auto profit off you or else they are litterally printing money and your the printer.
And if my range wasn't so capped ott this wouldn't even be worth posting about but the fact I literally never have 66,1010,KK,K10,K6 or the straight 79 in this spot makes it easy for a thinking player to exploit me. My question wasn't "how often should we call overbets". It was more along the lines of how do we stop tough a opponent from making overbets auto profitable vs us. Never call is not a solution.
Against people like this but in a poker room where who you can't run away from them...
Passive slowplaying is the way to tame them.
November 5th, 2017, 3:39 PM
Could be some SDs & perhaps some FDs as well but I'm not risking here with middle pair OOP.
The pot is small so it's not worth the risk IMO. Would wait for a better chance.
The position & the board have you beat. I would fold & move on.
November 5th, 2017, 6:55 PM
Exactly what I did. but I think we need to have some hands in are check calling range on the flop that is willing to gii ott this way villain can't just ob or even pot turn and have us fold at a 100% frequency even if he is over bluffing are range is capped and his isn't so we could potentially be drawing dead.
tomj from 2plus2 says: Maybe we did. He could this with any 2 pair on the board, 66, 79 and what about Kx? He isnt short of value hands but he is also calling pre a lot so he has a million possible bluffs. If he is betting and overbetting any 2 we could adjust by calling with hands like this with sdv and 2 pair blocker, or check call some sets and KT to have stronger hands to call down with. We dont usually want to give free cards but very few of his combos are going to bink so I dont think its a big problem when the ev of letting him barrel off is higher than protecting our strong hands. That is assuming our read is accurate and he is exploiting which means he is unbalanced and over bluffing with low or zero equity (?)
We could also bet this flop, a clear enough vbet and a decent hand to check call turn with.
November 6th, 2017, 4:06 PM
Poker at: Pokerstars
Game: 6max zoom
” Also views me as TAG but I can be a bit passive post flop oop especially vs aggressive opponents.”
If he sees you more a passive caller, bluffing you is not really profitable play, and your assumption is that he is indeed very profitable.
“That is assuming our read is accurate and he is exploiting which means he is unbalanced and over bluffing with low or zero equity (?)”
Again if he is winning player at 5NL he hardly ever bluffs without some kind of equity. It’s hard to find a call against equity + made hand range especially against big bet. To call you need generally beat part of his value range in 5NL. Also to call turn, you need to be quite sure he gives up the river.
If you going to see his bluffs, something like made hands + some outs would be quite good? (Generally speaking, bluff catching range kinda builds itself up, no need, at least this level to have game optimal ranges) Also if you feel his strategy against you is to bluff you away, quite good counter strategy is to strengthen your no CB range (generally speaking that is, probably not on this flop though).
Also only you can really say if you should call or not, because you are the only one with 2k hands with him. Look database and see how he plays in detail, hand by hand.
November 8th, 2017, 2:55 AM
re: Poker & Did I just get exploited by an overbet?
I now know the proper counter strategy but won't be sharing it because after I posted this on 2+2 more regs other than the one I was talking about began implementing the over bet ott. Whether or not that was do to the thread or because one reg saw another reg do it so it became like a snowball effect idk.
And someone posted:
I think I know your villain - thereís a few of them though. It seems like no matter the time of day they always on 5NL multitasking with huge 400 BB stacks on multiple tables.
And yes they do these overbets that are so hard to react to. Espec when u take the xcall lines after raising pre with what is obv a 1 pair hand. I donít have anything helpful to add sorry.
November 10th, 2017, 2:34 AM
Poker at: Bet Online
Game: NL holdem
I would have cbet that flop and then reevaluate. As played I would fold to the overbet because you're likely facing a third bet on the river.