How disiplined are you?

You're in MP in a ring game with QQ. It is folded around to the guy on your imidiate right, who min-raises. You reraise to 5xBB. The Button again RERAISES 3x your raise. The initial raiser goes all in, calling leaves you with 1/2 your stack, and you have the button covered by about 6xBB.


What do you do here? Would your answer change if you had KK? If so, why?

I would fold here. I'm assuming the player who re-raised your raise will call the other player's all in. If you call, you will be in a three-way all in with Pocket Queens. Chances are one, if not both players have a higher card (Ace and King). Pocket Queens are a great hand, not that great. At least with Pocket Kings, you only have to worry about one card (just the Ace). If both players had the Ace with your Pocket Kings, you know the odds of another Ace coming up is a small percentage and you have a high percentage to win.

Easy fold. Now KK throws a different light on things. It would have to be very dependant on player reads. I have only ever folded KK pre-flop once, and I had an excellent read on my opponent, and a bucket load of hands on him. (on-line) And once live, against who i percieve to be the tightest player in history. Both times prooved correct, and i was up against AA.

But 99% of the time i would call with the KK.

As stated above, this is a fold, without question. KK makes the situation much more difficult. If I myself am holding KK and the above bets are still taking place, I'm usually very strongly thinking someone has AA, although it of course depends on my reads.

If I perceive either player to be tight, there's a good chance I fold my KK here, as painfully tempting as it may be to call.

seems you guys are more disciplined than 99% of other online poker players, who will call all in with nearly any Pocket pair.

With QQ i fold here 100% of the time unless BOTH players are known to push with almost any two cards. With kings, i am almost always going to fold as well, as the push preflop usually means KK, or AA. Maybe AK if the player is weak, at Best I'm a slight favorite, and at worse i'm a huge dog. Its best to fold your kings here.

That's very true Styrofoam. We may well be in the minority of online poker players as far as folding this hand.

The fact is that there are a large number of players who, no matter what reads they have, they're going to call virtually any bet pre-flop with QQ or better. There are just a lot of people who can't even conceive the idea of folding such a great hand pre-flop, even when it's likely very necessary. Probably one of the biggest strategical problems the average player has is being a slave to their hand. You should play your cards, not let the cards play you.

depends on my reads of the players; in the rings i play, sometimes people make plays like this with lesser hands to scare you out, but i'd still have to fold here.
Even if the players are complete megalomaniacs, QQ just isn't an all in PF hand for me at a ring.
though i've seen AQ/AK all ins with big stacks PF at 1/2 and 2/4, I'm just not going to gamble as to whether or not they have a monster hand. Safer to fold, and forget about those 5BBs - live to fight another day and take these hyper-aggressive players' money
nice thread, styro

HMMM. I like my chances here with QQ.

INITIAL RAISER:
This player is not showing a lot of certainty with his hand. To begin the betting he made a minimum raise. This is not even an isolation play, so he doesn't seem to know what he is doing. Then he raised all in to a large re-raise? Like I said, I don't think this guy knows what he is doing and he is in over his head. I'm putting him on a middle PP, and guessing that he was trying to buy the pot with his all in.

MIDDLE POSITION:
I would be slightly worried here, but his raise is nothing that isn't a standard maneuver here. I am guessing that this guy has either JJ or AK. I say this because he also appears to be trying to steal the pot with a substantial re-raise. I would be slightly worried of the 6 outs involved with AK, but I would chop that down to 4 outs considering you are sitting at a 10 handed table and one more A and K were likely dealt as hole cards.

I would reraise all in.

AceZWylD said:

INITIAL RAISER:
This player is not showing a lot of certainty with his hand. To begin the betting he made a minimum raise. This is not even an isolation play, so he doesn't seem to know what he is doing. Then he raised all in to a large re-raise? Like I said, I don't think this guy knows what he is doing and he is in over his head. I'm putting him on a middle PP, and guessing that he was trying to buy the pot with his all in.

Click to expand...

Or he could be trying to set a trap, hoping that one of his opponents will raise him so that he can make the all-in play?

As much as it would pain me (pocket Qs are pretty ) I would have to fold. There have been too many times when I let myself be a slave to the hand, call and find that I am indeed up against KK and AA....usually at Titan...

Since this is a ring game, I think it would depend on how much money I have at the time. I know you said that calling will leave me 1/2 my stack but you never said how much I had to begin with. This probably is not the attitude to have if I'm trying to be a successful player but it would figure into my thinking. If I have to call $5, I'm pushing and taking my chances....if it's $100, I'm folding for sure. Just remember that I suck at poker so I'm in the 99% that calls with pp's (Q's or higher)

if its a cash game i fold.

if its a tournament i re raise all in for the following reason:

here is a classic example of win equity. you are holding the third best starting hand possible. the odds of someone else being dealt a pocket pair i think are around 266/1 so the odds of them being dealt a high pocket pair than you are ridiculously slim. in this case, if you fold your in a weak position to take a nice placing in the tourny. if you lose, you can kiss good buy to the tourny.

however since there is an extremely high chance that you have the best hand. you MUST move for win equity and re raise all in. if you lose you lose but if you win you will be in a dominant position for the tournament.

i would think the initial had AA. i have been in tournies and had QQ and been raised and reraised and called all-in and they show AA or KK. after some experince with the players at the table i think i might fold