getting value out of flopped full house

Shandy · Jun 17, 2007

hero and villian both playing very Lag, how do you get the most value out of these, have been continuation betting. Apart from folding this hand preflop, what are your actions to get most value post flop, just curious will post next street tomorrow.
pokerstars Game #10488243477: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4) - 2007/06/17 - 21:21:04 (ET)
Table 'Sicilia' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: bompa ($388 in chips)
Seat 2: SALLYBOY1 ($168.40 in chips)
Seat 3: 222shay222 ($1059.40 in chips)
Seat 5: caoniba6133 ($1051.65 in chips)
Seat 6: Radioheads ($388 in chips)
Seat 7: Skunchle ($519.40 in chips)
Seat 8: BoxerAAAA ($65 in chips)
Seat 9: ClaudeX ($359.60 in chips)
SALLYBOY1: posts small blind $2
222shay222: posts big blind $4
Simple Simon: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to 222shay222 [7h 6s]
caoniba6133: raises $12 to $16
Radioheads: folds
Skunchle: folds
BoxerAAAA: calls $16
ClaudeX: folds
bompa: folds
SALLYBOY1: folds
222shay222: calls $12
*** FLOP *** [6h 7d 7c]
222shay222: checks
caoniba6133: bets $49
BoxerAAAA: folds

stormswa · Jun 17, 2007

Shandy said:
hero and villian both playing very Lag, how do you get the most value out of these, have been continuation betting. Apart from folding this hand preflop, what are your actions to get most value post flop, just curious will post next street tomorrow.
PokerStars Game #10488243477: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4) - 2007/06/17 - 21:21:04 (ET)
Table 'Sicilia' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: bompa ($388 in chips)
Seat 2: SALLYBOY1 ($168.40 in chips)
Seat 3: 222shay222 ($1059.40 in chips)
Seat 5: caoniba6133 ($1051.65 in chips)
Seat 6: Radioheads ($388 in chips)
Seat 7: Skunchle ($519.40 in chips)
Seat 8: BoxerAAAA ($65 in chips)
Seat 9: ClaudeX ($359.60 in chips)
SALLYBOY1: posts small blind $2
222shay222: posts big blind $4
Simple Simon: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to 222shay222 [7h 6s]
caoniba6133: raises $12 to $16
Radioheads: folds
Skunchle: folds
BoxerAAAA: calls $16
ClaudeX: folds
bompa: folds
SALLYBOY1: folds
222shay222: calls $12

ok I know this isnt the question but why?

*** FLOP *** [6h 7d 7c]
222shay222: checks
caoniba6133: bets $49
BoxerAAAA: folds

obviously he has a overpair so you just cold call and lead turn.

Schatzdog · Jun 17, 2007

I think flat calling is okay, that way you represent a draw. If he has an overpair and the turn bricks you should get another bet out him or if he's sitting with AK/AQ you give him a chance to make top pair. I'd start to build the pot on the turn rather than on the flop.

Also if opponent is LAG he may just lead the betting for you all the way.

stormswa · Jun 17, 2007

Schatzdog said:
I think flat calling is okay, that way you represent a draw. If he has an overpair and the turn bricks you should get another bet out him or if he's sitting with AK/AQ you give him a chance to make top pair. I'd start to build the pot on the turn rather than on the flop.

Also if opponent is LAG he may just lead the betting for you all the way.

nah he isn't going to bet the turn also once you cold call the flop bet. You have to lead this turn 100% of the time because you are out of position and he will check behind almost 80% of the time.

here is what would happen

we call behind
check he checks
we bet and he folds

I would fold AA if you checked the turn also because it is reall really obvious you at least have trips. If we lead turn we kinds disguise our hand a little expecially if a good drawing card comes on turn. He could think we floated the flop and trying to take it away on turn with semi bluff. Of if a Broadway card comes out we can try to represent that we floated flop and hit our overcard and possibly get paid off better.

Shandy · Jun 17, 2007

What do you think about raising the flop, i was seen as very LAG, and checking the turn, to make it look like a check raise bluff?

stormswa · Jun 17, 2007

Shandy said:
What do you think about raising the flop, i was seen as very LAG, and checking the turn, to make it look like a check raise bluff?

I think if you image is very LAG a raise would be ok becuase he might put you on a pair lower then his or the 6, something like 5-6 or a combo draw. Or he could put you on 7 and release his overpair, im pretty sure he has overpair though.

just do what you normally would do if you didnt have a full house, like play the hand like you would of played it if you totally missed flop. this hand should play itself either he has something and pays you off or he dosent and folds to any intrest you show in pot.

edge-t · Jun 17, 2007

stormswa said:
we call behind
check he checks
we bet and he folds

Like Storm said, I'd prefer to raise or min-raise the flop. If you call it on the flop, he's going to get that you flopped something. a minraise in this situation might make him think that you're probing for information.

I don't know, calling the flop, he's gonna check behind you, or you'll have to lead the turn. I'd rather raise the flop though.

stormswa · Jun 17, 2007

yea really this hand should play itself with little to no effort by you, he is either going to have something or not. Even if he has a overpair there is no garantee he is stacking off to you here. 2/4 nl players are not like 1/2 nl players, there is a huge jump in those 2 levels online. On 1/2 I would look for sneaky way to try to get it in and get paid off.

the way he is betting though it seems like he wants to stack off, just raise him on flop or lead turn either way you will find out if he wants to play or not. Either play is fine and both will accomplish same thing.

joeeagles · Jun 18, 2007

Shandy said:
What do you think about raising the flop, i was seen as very LAG, and checking the turn, to make it look like a check raise bluff?

I think this is the way to go, particularly if you have a LAG image. Your check/raise will be seen as a steal pot attempt, and you might get lucky if he has a big overpair he could reraise you, if not check the turn as you say. This is a huge hand considering stack sizes, your hope is that he doesn't have something like AK. What makes this great is your loose call PF OOP. There is no way he puts you on a FH, although if he's smart he could suspect trips.

On the other hand, check/raising the turn is also a good idea, but it might not work. If you attempt that and he checks back you're better off to just check the river too, hoping to induce a bluff or maybe he catches something and bets out thinking you're weak.

I hope you got his whole stack Shandy.

dacallstation12 · Jun 18, 2007

here is what i would do..
cold call the bet on the flop
throw a small bet out on the turn...say $20...hopefully he sees that as some kind of weak attempt to steal the pot and comes over the top....otherwise he sees it as a value bet...which i doubt since you were LAG...but if he re-raises....i would just call
then after the river....put the pressure on big time

tiltboy · Jun 18, 2007

I would reraise here. I dont think your going to make much money after the turn unless he has you beat and hits a bigger full house. Once you check/call alarm bells start ringing on a flop like that.

Raise now and if he calls you have to bet on the turn around 2/3 see if he calls. You cant call on the flop and check on the turn its too obvious you hit you have to hope he doesnt realise how good your hand is.

Shandy · Jun 18, 2007

Sorry dont have hand history so next part is from memory. Well the way I played it, i min-reraised the flop, he called, the turn came a 2 if i remember correctly, and i checked, he bet $50, i went into the tank before calling, 2 check raises are going to kill it here i think, and at this point i put him on an overpair. The turn comes a K. What is your action now?

Shandy · Jun 18, 2007

If your opponent what hand ranges do you put me on at this point

calibanboy · Jun 18, 2007

I think there is a danger of being too tricky.

For me is you have an Image of LAG you should have used this to you advantage and played the same way. If he has a high overpair he will pay you off if you bet first all the way here. This is the benefit of creating a LAG image.

( PS If he has KK tough luck on the river. )

stormswa · Jun 18, 2007

calibanboy said:
I think there is a danger of being too tricky.

For me is you have an Image of LAG you should have used this to you advantage and played the same way. If he has a high overpair he will pay you off if you bet first all the way here. This is the benefit of creating a LAG image.

( PS If he has KK tough luck on the river. )

every single word of this is correct, just play the same way you would if you missed the flop.

heatfan03 · Jun 18, 2007

i think u reraise on the flop and take the pot right there because he most likely unless hes bluffing is on PP if he hits his set he has a higher full house and if any card 8 - A comes on the turn after you call the flop he will most likely go all in playing the i hit a full house bluff. Maybe im wrong but i dont know u have mad over 10 blinds if you reraise on the flop and take his 50 bucks already why lose the chance of losing it all. but if u are prety sure he is bluffing then call and then bet on the turn?

stormswa · Jun 18, 2007

heatfan03 said:
i think u reraise on the flop and take the pot right there because he most likely unless hes bluffing is on PP if he hits his set he has a higher full house and if any card 8 - A comes on the turn after you call the flop he will most likely go all in playing the i hit a full house bluff. Maybe im wrong but i dont know u have mad over 10 blinds if you reraise on the flop and take his 50 bucks already why lose the chance of losing it all. but if u are prety sure he is bluffing then call and then bet on the turn?

unlike my previous post this is all incorrect?

so you are just going to overbet the pot because you are afraid someone will hit a 2 outer? interesting.

bw07507 · Jun 18, 2007

i think u reraise on the flop and take the pot right there because he most likely unless hes bluffing is on PP if he hits his set he has a higher full house and if any card 8 - A comes on the turn after you call the flop he will most likely go all in playing the i hit a full house bluff. Maybe im wrong but i dont know u have mad over 10 blinds if you reraise on the flop and take his 50 bucks already why lose the chance of losing it all. but if u are prety sure he is bluffing then call and then bet on the turn?

I dont understand this at all. I think we are hoping he has a high PP here and hoping he wont let it go.

edge-t · Jun 18, 2007

heatfan03 said:
i think u reraise on the flop and take the pot right there because he most likely unless hes bluffing is on PP if he hits his set he has a higher full house and if any card 8 - A comes on the turn after you call the flop he will most likely go all in playing the i hit a full house bluff. Maybe im wrong but i dont know u have mad over 10 blinds if you reraise on the flop and take his 50 bucks already why lose the chance of losing it all. but if u are prety sure he is bluffing then call and then bet on the turn?

Oh no man, if you do that, villain profits. simply because you're helping him make the right decision. You lose value like that. We want to give him incorrect attractive odds(Does this make sense?), so that he'll call. Everytime he makes a call with the improper odds, we profit.

Shandy · Jun 18, 2007

Yeah i really don't think you can worry about him hitting a two outer. I was hoping that he would put me on something like AK, AQ, or medium pair, when the K hit there was that little twinge of oh no he could have kk, and i also thought it would kill any action from 1010-QQ, but on the river i quickly fired out a bet of $192, just quickly scrolled the raise bar and fired it out as soon as i could, trying to make it look like a bluff, don't know if it was the speed or just my image, but the guy called and mucked JJ.
Was just wondering if any of you would have played it any differently, not disappointed with the value i got from hand, was just interested to see if there were any ways to squeeze a little more, although most of you seem like you would have played it pretty much the same.
Cheers for the input
shandy

getting value out of flopped full house

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