Fold Cowboys Preflop?

R

red_dawn_28

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CO is 18/13/5.5 over 38 hands
SB is 19/16/5.6 over 193 hands
and I am about 28/17/2 or so.

Can anyone find a fold here? Obviously we’d have to put one of them on AA a good percentage of the time in order to do so.

Thanks,
Red Dawn

poker stars, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter
SB: $99
BB: $19.20
UTG: $107.25
MP: $76.15
CO: $102.50
Hero (BTN): $102
Pre-Flop: Kh Kc dealt to Hero (BTN)
2 folds, CO raises to $4, Hero raises to $10.50, SB raises to $30, BB folds, CO raises to $102.50 and is All-In

Hero???
 
Munchrs

Munchrs

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Thats an incredibly difficult situation.

Do you have any reads as to what villians stack with?
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Any significant steal/resteal and 3-bet history?

This one's pretty interesting and although in-game I probably turboshove, this might actually be a fold barring some history where you've 3-bet light a lot or something.

Reraise more preflop by the way - $12-15 or so.
 
A

abinferno

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I'm not sure I'd consider folding here. It looks like SB tried a squeeze and failed, so I wouldn't worry about him. Only one hand beats you. CO is fairly tight, but ridiculously aggressive over that small sample size. I see players especially at these levels stack off all the time with JJ, QQ and AK. Also, though unlikely, you could have the same hand. Depending on how savvy the CO is, he may have read the SB for a squeeze and decided to push thinking you won't be strong enough to call either after you see him raise all in with a re-raiser still left to act. I think with his maniac aggression numbers so far, I'd make this call.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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abinferno said:
I'm not sure I'd consider folding here. It looks like SB tried a squeeze and failed, so I wouldn't worry about him. Only one hand beats you. CO is fairly tight, but ridiculously aggressive over that small sample size. I see players especially at these levels stack off all the time with JJ, QQ and AK. Also, though unlikely, you could have the same hand. Depending on how savvy the CO is, he may have read the SB for a squeeze and decided to push thinking you won't be strong enough to call either after you see him raise all in with a re-raiser still left to act. I think with his maniac aggression numbers so far, I'd make this call.
Click to expand...

A squeeze and a 4-bet are two completely different plays and I think we should be giving a 4-bet a lot more respect.

Regarding CO's aggression, it has no bearing on this since AF is derived completely from postflop play. It probably has some indirect link since an aggressive postflop player is more likely to be aggressive preflop as well, but it's not a sure thing and we can't bank our whole decision on that.
 
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johoyo

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Im actually leaning more to folding. Id think at least one of them is on AA. With no specific reads on any of them, im folding and waiting for a better spot.
 
A

abinferno

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ChuckTs said:
A squeeze and a 4-bet are two completely different plays and I think we should be giving a 4-bet a lot more respect.

Regarding CO's aggression, it has no bearing on this since AF is derived completely from postflop play. It probably has some indirect link since an aggressive postflop player is more likely to be aggressive preflop as well, but it's not a sure thing and we can't bank our whole decision on that.
Click to expand...

I realize they are different plays, but this could still be one. With KK, I would still mostly discount the SB and focus more on the CO. Also, both have fairly strong preflop raise numbers, as well as huge aggression postflop. Maybe I'm just too stubborn to lay down kings here, but if there's a showdown, I'll be surprised if one of them has AA. There is also the adage, the third raise is always AA. I can't fault for folding here, just don't know if I would.
 
shammalamma

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Tough.... depends on the mood and what kind've hands these two have been raising with preflop. Seems like CO may have aces but you can't tell for sure. about 75% of the time I'd shove my chips in on this
 
t1riel

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Folding here would be the safe choice but they don't call it gambling for nothing. It's a lot of money were are dealing with here and it certainly makes you think about it. If was me, I would call. I can't see myself folding this hand preflop.
 
B

bw07507

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Are we really considering folding KK preflop 100BBs deep 6-handed? I know this could be AA from either one of them, but AK and QQ are in both their ranges too. I think I just shove this one in.
 
davejs1671@yahoo.com

davejs1671@yahoo.com

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Ir would depend on my reads and how they played hands previously. Without any of the information I would probably call his all in and and see what happens. I agree that AK and QQ are also possible and without any information that they are real tight players and are making a move the they wouldn't make accept with AA I would have to go for it.
 
ChuckTs

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4 month old thread here guys...

I don't think I could actually fold this but it's about as close as I could get 6-handed...
 
G

GrantGreen

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I will never fold KK 100bbs deep in 6max. As bw says, AK and QQ are very much in their ranges, as well as some hyper aggro w/ JJ or even TT. Sometimes they do have AA, but often they don't.
 
B

brewdawg69

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While I seem to run into aces quite a bit on Full Tilt with this hand :(, I doubt I'll ever be able to fold it preflop. It's the second best hand in the game, and you don't get it that often... enjoy it and bet it when you do :D
 
jdeliverer

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It really depends on the stakes 'n stacks. At low stakes, there is a HUGE range of hands that people will call in with, even 150BB deep, including crap like 55. Low stakes ring games I would call all in every time with KK. In tournies I would fold it if I were in say 5th out of 50 up against the chip leader.

It would take 5$/10$+ with over 120 BB for me to fold KK (of course, take notes on the players).
 
vincemcnabb

vincemcnabb

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I think I would call and run it twice..lol jk..but I think I would still have to call this UNLESS you have played with this guy a lot and know he's tight-aggressive or plays a lot of pots..I think it's worth it to call.
 
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