Fold or Call?

pokerstars Game #7904626425: Hold'em No Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2007/01/12 - 21:04:11 (ET)
Table 'Meliboea IV' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Orion469 ($6.70 in chips)
Seat 2: Kenzie96 ($10.05 in chips)
Seat 3: renkert ($9.20 in chips)
Seat 4: dakota-xx ($7.85 in chips)
Seat 5: Sammyv1 ($10.25 in chips)
Seat 6: Intal ($14.75 in chips)
Seat 7: mischman ($8.60 in chips)
Seat 8: thepony4802 ($4.80 in chips)
Seat 9: DERUY ($7.95 in chips)
Kenzie96: posts small blind $0.05
renkert: posts big blind $0.10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Sammyv1 [Ac Kc]
dakota-xx: folds
Sammyv1: raises $0.30 to $0.40
Intal: folds
mischman: folds
thepony4802: folds
DERUY: folds
Orion469: folds
Kenzie96: folds
renkert: calls $0.30
*** FLOP *** [2h Qh 2c]
renkert: checks
Sammyv1: bets $0.40
renkert: calls $0.40
*** TURN *** [2h Qh 2c] [Tc]
renkert: bets $0.50
Sammyv1: calls $0.50
*** RIVER *** [2h Qh 2c Tc] [Jc]
renkert: bets $7.90 and is all-in

After knowing the results and discussing it at the table
48 out of 49 times i call in a heartbeat

vs the average $10 player, I call. This bet just doesn't want to be called.


Any reads though?

yup, I call every time.

call

and probably check the flop

quad 2s right?

ChuckTs said:

Any reads though?

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Makes me laugh when people keep saying "any reads?" on hand analysis threads. Just what sort of reads are you looking for? "Only bets 3 times pot with quads or full houses?". You probably wont see this opponent play a similar hand if you play for hours, and even if you do does everyone play the same hand the same every time? Your experience told you bet doesn't want to be called (I agree, if he's got Full House, he'll want another couple of dollars unless he's sure you've got flush - he cant be sure of course, especially as you got runner runner for it). I dont know how long you'd have to play against someone, and what you would have seen them do to change your decision from call to fold.

call

I fold, You only have $1.30 in the pot. Your living on ace high, he could have been playing with a j/10 and hit on it who knows when your playing for this little of money he might have kept pocket duces

Makes me laugh when people keep saying "any reads?" on hand analysis threads.

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why?

in many marginal decisions it can be the difference between one action and another being optimal. in this case we'd be looking to see how often villain had been overbetting, whether he has a history of being tricky and slowplaying hands to the river etc etc.

i agree in this case that 99.99999999% of the time it's an easy call though, obviously.

and even if you do does everyone play the same hand the same every time?

Click to expand...

umm at 10nl most of the time yes, lol

robwhufc said:

Makes me laugh when people keep saying "any reads?" on hand analysis threads. Just what sort of reads are you looking for?

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In this case, I'd be looking for 'huge overbets with weak hands' or 'uninviting bets = not wanting a call' type reads. I don't see what's funny about having previous info on a player; even some PT stats or general 'super tight', 'semi-LAG' or whatever even helps. The info doesn't have to be from a very similar hand, just a general read.

In Sammy's example, I only fold if I have a read on villain as being a super tight player who never puts his chips in without having a monster. Then again I'm sure Sammy would have noted that in the original post if he had a read like that.

Nothing that I had seen out of this player would have kept me from calling Sammy.

Going Deep said:

I fold, You only have $1.30 in the pot. Your living on ace high, he could have been playing with a j/10 and hit on it who knows when your playing for this little of money he might have kept pocket duces

Click to expand...

Ace high......ace high flush

Catching my Nut Flush....I'd have to go broke when he turned over the quad 2's. (I'm guessing quads)

ChuckTs said:

In Sammy's example, I only fold if I have a read on villain as being a super tight player who never puts his chips in without having a monster. Then again I'm sure Sammy would have noted that in the original post if he had a read like that.

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But if you fold when your "super tight" opponent goes all in on boards like that, you wont know what he had so your read is no longer accurate! Sorry to take thread off at a tangent, i'm just curious - how long do you have to observe a player to lay down this hand, and have you got any opponents in your database that you would lay this down to?

But if you fold when your "super tight" opponent goes all in on boards like that, you wont know what he had so your read is no longer accurate!

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Huh? So if I've got a strong read that this opponent doesn't do this without a hand that beats me, call to prove my notes are right??

Sorry to take thread off at a tangent, i'm just curious - how long do you have to observe a player to lay down this hand, and have you got any opponents in your database that you would lay this down to?

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Yep. I understand completely where you're coming from though. Asking for reads on this hand is kind of silly because if Sammy had a read strong enough to lay this down, it would have been noted in the hand.

Who am I kidding...I probably look this person up anyways.

ChuckTs said:

Huh? So if I've got a strong read that this opponent doesn't do this without a hand that beats me, call to prove my notes are right??

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But if you see opponent play 6 hands, win 3 with monsters and 3 unopposed then how do you know he only plays premium hands, he could have won the other 3 with total junk. Not saying you should call just to get your notes accurate, but if you dont then you no longer have accurate notes on him do you?

robwhufc said:

But if you see opponent play 6 hands, win 3 with monsters and 3 unopposed then how do you know he only plays premium hands, he could have won the other 3 with total junk. Not saying you should call just to get your notes accurate, but if you dont then you no longer have accurate notes on him do you?

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With 6 hands on a player, they aren't strong notes. That would be an easy call. Had I sat down and played a session with the same player for 300 hands and he only raised PF with AA and never put all his money in post-flop without the nuts (or whatever), the story would be a little different.

O.K. Here is the rest of it!
I did not have any "read" at all on this player.
I thought about it a long time before making my final decision, had a funny feeling about it!


Sammyv1 said, "oh"
Sammyv1 said, "my"
renkert said, "mglpdngklpdnpnd"
Orion469 said, "trips?"
Sammyv1 said, "ok"
Kenzie96 said, "ain't that the truth"
renkert said, "77"
Sammyv1: calls $7.90
*** SHOW DOWN ***
renkert: shows [Qs Qc] (a full house, Queens full of Deuces)
Sammyv1: shows [Ac Kc] (a flush, Ace high)
renkert said, "boom"
renkert collected $17.55 from pot
Sammyv1 said, "nh"
Kenzie96 said, "nhs"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $18.45 | Rake $0.90
Board [2h Qh 2c Tc Jc]
Seat 1: Orion469 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Kenzie96 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: renkert (big blind) showed [Qs Qc] and won ($17.55) with a full house, Queens full of Deuces
Seat 4: dakota-xx folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Sammyv1 showed [Ac Kc] and lost with a flush, Ace high
Seat 6: Intal folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: mischman folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: thepony4802 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: DERUY folded before Flop (didn't bet)