flopped set vs. 3 clubs on turn

BelgoSuisse

BelgoSuisse

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i'm confused by the two minraises on the flop. What should I do on turn when the 3rd club hits and on river when villain bets?

full tilt poker Game #7071341506: Table Count Diero - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 14:42:37 ET - 2008/07/03
Seat 1: xxCraiGMaCxx ($31.10)
Seat 2: henku ($47.60)
Seat 3: DNeggreanu ($35.05)
Seat 4: sayajin422 ($16.80)
Seat 5: christianER ($45.10)
Seat 6: BelgoSuisse ($25)
Seat 7: stipey169 ($27.55)
Seat 8: phimaicoon ($18.90)
Seat 9: Denman1981 ($22.50)
christianER posts the small blind of $0.10
BelgoSuisse posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to BelgoSuisse [8s 8c]
stipey169 folds
phimaicoon folds
Denman1981 folds
xxCraiGMaCxx folds
henku folds
DNeggreanu folds
sayajin422 calls $0.25
christianER calls $0.15
BelgoSuisse checks
*** FLOP *** [Ac 8h Qc]
christianER bets $0.25
BelgoSuisse raises to $1
sayajin422 has 15 seconds left to act
sayajin422 folds
christianER raises to $1.75
BelgoSuisse raises to $5
christianER calls $3.25
*** TURN *** [Ac 8h Qc] [2c]
christianER checks
BelgoSuisse checks
*** RIVER *** [Ac 8h Qc 2c] [4d]
christianER bets $5
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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By checking the turn you almost guaranteed that he would bet the river, I at least call. I think you would have been better off betting the turn though. There are too many action killing cards that can fall on the river.
 
The Shrog

The Shrog

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As played, I think a call on the river is fine. Villain may be in the AJ range..even A8 for a flopped two pair. Call.
 
vanquish

vanquish

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actually, it's a limped pot... meh. i guess call might be slightly better simply because he might have a few more flushes than i originally thought, but i probably still shove cuz i'm hardXcore.
 
BelgoSuisse

BelgoSuisse

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By checking the turn you almost guaranteed that he would bet the river,

I think you would have been better off betting the turn though. There are too many action killing cards that can fall on the river.

Aren't these two statements contradicting each other? Am I inducing action or am i not by checking the turn?

The reason I check the turn is because I think there are very few hands other than the flushes that can call a bet on the turn. So by checking I control pot size against the hands that beat me. Weaker hands will not call bets on 3 streets anyway with a flush possibility, so I'd rather value bet the river than the turn here.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Aren't these two statements contradicting each other? Am I inducing action or am i not by checking the turn?
You're inducing action unless a scare card falls. Then you kill your ability to get value out of your hand.
 
BelgoSuisse

BelgoSuisse

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You're inducing action unless a scare card falls. Then you kill your ability to get value out of your hand.

But most of the time a scare card won't fall. So against weaker hands, most of the time i'll get more value by checking turn and inducing action on non scary rivers than by betting the turn which is really hard to call OOP for villain knowing I could be ready to bet river too.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Or villain gives up when he doesn't make his flush, and you lose value by not making him pay to draw....

I think you're underestimating villain's ability to call two bets with 3 to a suit on the board.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Any club is an action killer. Any board pair is a potential action killer. There are a ton of cards that can kill your action.
 
C

ColdDeckCity

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I would at least call this, the flop action seems to say that he has more than a flush draw

He could have hit two pair, or even just one! If hes an over player as act like this.

The river bet could be a blocking bet

Your check on the turn "allowed" him to take a shot on the river so more reason to call
 
BelgoSuisse

BelgoSuisse

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BelgoSuisse calls $5
*** SHOW DOWN ***
christianER shows [8d Qd] two pair, Queens and Eights
BelgoSuisse shows [8s 8c] three of a kind, Eights
BelgoSuisse wins the pot ($19.75) with three of a kind, Eights

So he had two pairs. Maybe I could have extracted more value here. On the other hand I'm pretty pleased with the final pot size given that my set is not such a monster with 3 clubs on the board. Am I being too prudent?
 
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ColdDeckCity

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I don't think it is as cut and dry as a yes or no because we don't know the player.

However the smaller the stakes the less prudent you should be, not meaning all in with AT preflop but being more willing to get more money in, in a SEMI marginal situations like this as the average low stakes player will give you more profit in these situations then say the average 100NL player because they over play hands more etc

Also never be pleased with a $10 pot or whatever it was when you could have / should have won a $11 pot; it all adds up
 
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