Do I bet the turn harder?

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donkcentralFF

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UTG- I raise to $12 bucks preflop with 10d10c
SB (nitwit) calls with 10s9c
BB- Unknown hand calls
Flop-Qs9d7ds
SB checks, BB checks, and I bet $25... SB Calls and BB folds...
turn-8ds
SB checks and I bet $30...SB calls
River-9h
SB leads out $30 and I raise to $75... He snap calls shows 109
A.) Would you bet the turn harder?
B.) If you were gonna bluff the river, how much would you reraise? I'm sure it probably depends on the opponent, but a general idea would be welcomed...
C.) Advice on playing 10s and 9s out of position against loose calling stations?
Any advice welcome thanks!
 
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kmart99

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A) yeah you could bet the turn harder. But a $30 bet into an $80 pot here isn't really all that bad I don't think. You value bet and I believe it was the right play. As a rule of thumb, if i want a cheap river and im like 60-70% sure im ahead ill bet half the pot, because i dont want to get stuxk calling a bigger bet, and i am ready to fold to a check raise(depending on what i know about my opponent). Had he had a tiny stack(like $60 behind or less) then betting $60 could be good because it's pretty tough to see check-call move all in with less than queens here. They could be holding J10, but outside of that, what scares you at this point? You're almost certainly winning. I think you played the turn right. If you really know your opponent and you are 90% sure you are winning, take away their odds and bet 2/3-3/4 the pot size. Now, back to back check calls shouldve immediately allowed you to put SB on (J10, 910,A9,K9, 89, A8, 78, 67, 88)Please note: If they're slow playing a set three handed with a straight making board, then they are making a huge mistake. Know your opponent's skill level and you can eliminate the possibility of being up against a set here.
The bet on the river is a DEAD giveaway that they hit the nine. Unless they are total calling stations who bluff when the river comes if they feel there's no other option(lol), the right play was just calling the vbet on the river or folding there.
B) I would NEVER bluff this river in this scenario. Ever. However, if you're going to do it, you raise 3/4 the pot size and make sure your opponent has a stack that can cover your bet, otherwise they're definitely calling.
C) If I'm playing loose calling stations, I like to establish a loose image early in the game, play lots of hands, chat a bunch of ppl up and then just play simple fundamental poker. I widen my preflop range slightly because I know worse hands are now better. Now 109s Oop is a little tricky. Try and get in on cheap pots against big stack calling stations. Minraise preflop to avoid being raised out of it if you want. If you limp, keep it to a minimum. Nothing says weak player like a habitual open limper. NEVER bluff a calling station. If you go to the turn card you have to have him dead. Avoid cbetting this hand heads up if all you have is overcards because youre gonna have to do it again on the turn, and then make another decision on the river, it's a nightmare.
Like I said, I like getting in on cheap pots against BIGSTACK calling stations and just getting paid when I hit. Cbetting, and really TAG play can often get crushed by calling stations. Switch to a LAG play style minus the bluffing.
 
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suby_rafael

suby_rafael

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Turn bet should be 50 bucks at least if not more since the pot is about 90 bucks. No need to bet the river after the 9 repeats, it should be an automatic check back.
Don't worry about villain's play we don't mind him playing that way. :p
 
SloPowers

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I agree $30 into an $80 pot is not enough... not even half pot! I think it's a sign of weakness and encourages villain to stay in. My play is $50 - $60 (2/3 - 3/4 of pot)

Maybe villain is staying in regardless (that remains to be seen) but if you show weakness he's likely thinking his 9's are good.
 
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Samweis3

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You should have raised at least for 50 $, i would raise 2/3 of the pot here. neverthless, you have also consider him to have a flush here. These situations will face up so often, so you will get used to it
 
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GWU73

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I do not like bet folding that turn, especially with a weak bet. The pot is already large. I would tend to check it back. If I was absolutely confident I was ahead I would take all the guess work out and ship it.
 
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love that omaha

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No limit hold em cash games are definitely not my speciality but I would check that turn some of the time for pot control and check call the river when it is a blank hoping that I induced a bluff. 9 is not a good card to bet on the river because it is quite possible he has called you with a 9 in his hand whether it is 89 109 j9 q9 A9 or K9. I like keeping the pot small when out of position with medium strength hands but obv. you run the risk of getting drawn out on - I don't think villain in your hand is going to fold even if you bet 50 or a little more on the turn - It is really hard to force the average player to fold a hand with a pair and a draw plus he has position on you and may simply be planning to put in a big bet if he misses. I think in today's climate it is very hard to fold your hand but I can see you losing about 60 less and then many times he bricks and you catch a bluff or he just value bets a 9 putting you on AK etc thinking one pair is good - wouldn't worry too much about opponents who get lucky and never worry about them playing badly against you.
 
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nygmen2007

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it is hard to second guess because it seems to me you had a good read on the nitwit... When the pot got up to 90 if you feel like you are ahead I would make the bet between 20-30 because you know he is coming along. Then when the river gives thr second 9 and he leads out at that point in time you have to put him on straight or trips... Nothing you can do in those situations.
 
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Gambler47

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I'm with everyone else on betting more on the turn, IF I bet the turn. After him calling out of position preflop, it's a possibility that he has AQ, KQ, maybe even QJ depending on the player, or flopped a set. After him check/calling the flop bet, I would probably check the turn back even after picking up the draw. I'd have to see what the river was before committing anymore money. If you check the turn back, then when the 9 comes on the river and he fires what I would get would be about a 1/2 pot size bet as a value bet, then you can get away from your 10's and only lose $37 in the hand.
 
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crow27

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Is V really that big of a nitwit? Look what v had on flop. FD, and 2nd pair.(14 unseen outs)

Flop bet was just fine. $25 into a $36 pot. Good size. But think about it from V's hand. Loose calling stations are calling that close to 100% of the time. Nothing you can do about that. Make them pay.

Turn bet needs to be bigger. $50 against a tight player and maybe up to $70 for those who like to draw. If he's going to call, making him pay 3/4 of the pot or more will be HIS mistake, no matter the river card is. Remember though, the V just picked up 3 more unseen outs.(up to 17 outs now) I know those 3 split the pot, but neither of you know this here.

River raise was absolutely terrible IMO. (sizing and situation) ESPECIALLY when V. leads on the river. You said he was a loose calling station, which means passive, which means he only bets when he thinks he has the best hand!! Calling or folding are you're ONLY 2 options here. When a loose passive V. donk bets the river after calling 2 streets, if you don't have the 1st 2nd or 3rd nuts, you're probably beat. Loose passive players don't bluff. If they bluff, they're not passive.
 
TheGodson

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I'd probably check the turn like other's have said. A lot of hands in your opponent's range are hitting that flop. Better to keep the pot smaller. TT is a good bluff catcher in a hand like that. If he checks the river then you can go for value.

Never re-raise the river as a bluff in this scenario. Your river raise is more of a value raise than a bluff anyway based on its size. $30 on the river is like 1/5 the pot. Looks more like a blocker bet with Qx than anything else. I'd just call there since it is so small and hope to win.
 
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