Dealing with Fish. Correct play?

I

itsJames2011

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Hey everybody,

I have been playing 2NL for a couple months now and feel like I am playing pretty solid. From everything I've read table selection can be the single most important factor to improving win rates however playing with the fish seems to be causing me a lot of grief. Seems like I keep getting it in with good equity and getting wholloped by crazy draws on a regular basis. Down 5 buy in's as of this morning ><

Here's a perfect example of what I am talking about. Did I somehow misplay this? Mind you the fish on the button was playing 56/44/5.

No Limit Hold'em $0.01/$0.02
Winning Poker Network
6 players
Formatted by pokercopilot.com: Poker HUD for Mac and Windows

Stacks:
BTN - BTN ($1.93)
SB - SB ($2.00)
BB - Hero ($5.43)
MP - MP ($4.32)
CO - CO ($0.57)
BB - BB ($2.00)

Preflop: ($0.05, 6 players) Hero is BB with Th Ts
2 folds, BB checks, BTN raises to $0.12, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.10, 1 fold

Flop: 7d 4h 3d ($0.27, 2 players - BTN: $1.81, Hero: $5.31)
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.17, Hero calls $0.17

Turn: 2s ($0.61, 2 players - BTN: $1.64, Hero: $5.14)
Hero checks, BTN raises to $1.64 (all-in), Hero calls $1.64

River: 7c ($3.89, 2 players, 1 all-in - BTN: $0.00, Hero: $3.50)

Total Pot: $3.89
BTN shows 7s Js (with Three Of Kind of 7s)
Hero shows Th Ts (with Two pairs. 10s and 7s)

BTN wins $3.70 with Three Of Kind of 7s
 
S

sillymunchie

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ok, well done you got the goods all in he had top pair extremely weak kicker but i am going to have to criticize you completely here

you claimed to be playing a prety solid game
your in the BB (out of position) with T T
the button does what he is expected to do, and raises

YOU - shouldnt want to see a flop here, your going to be OutOfPosition the rest of the hand, so you should always be reraising and seeing the flop only if he calls a reraise

by flat calling your looking to hit a set HU, but its such a small pot that you should never get paid off by playing this way

you miss your set but you have an Overpair, you check, he does what he should be doing and Cbets, but you did nothing to try and protect your hand

then on the turn he has top pair and believes he is ahead and gets it completely wrong but again you do not protect your hand and you check to him in which your lucky he overplays his hand so much

the enemy is the agressor here, and if your calling people down constantly then you are not playing correctly as your opponent is setting the price and your winning small ammounts
that being said if they always did things like this then you would and should be happy that the opponent overplayed his top pair and you called down with the best hand, just unfortunate that you lost it
 
S

string

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I think you played this completely fine considering your opponent is an aggro fish.

In general you don't want to be playing passively, and there's certainly an argument to be made for 3betting preflop and leading out the flop and turn.

The thing is, fish with stats like this view checking and calling as pure weakness. I think deciding to call him down is fine, with the disclaimer that trapping is less effective against non-maniac opponents.

I know that losing this hand is really tilting, but being down 5 BI is honestly nothing :)
Such is the poker life. Look back at this hand and be happy with it, because you were 9:1 when you got the money all in. Think of the EV you won, not the money you lost, and realize that the EV you win will turn into money eventually.
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

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my line is diff... but same result.

i 3bet pre for value.
and just think of stacks against fish... by turn its allin

flatting or checking behind pre is fine if their cold calling is super tight and willing to make more calling mistakes post flop
 
Figaroo2

Figaroo2

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just one word

Cooler:)
 

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Erpherk

Erpherk

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The way you played it...he most likely thought his hand was good . I sometimes play a pair like this and give them opportunity to bluff at it, but you run the risk of getting outdrawn and the river is never friendly. You got your money in good just unlucky i believe.
 
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itsJames2011

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I know I was oop but I decided to flat pre flop in the hopes of catching the set. I went with the check call line thinking I could get him to hang himself and not risk having him fold to aggression.
 
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joe777

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Squeeze pre,as played look fine to me.
 
C

Canariez

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I know that losing this hand is really tilting, but being down 5 BI is honestly nothing :)
Such is the poker life. Look back at this hand and be happy with it, because you were 9:1 when you got the money all in. Think of the EV you won, not the money you lost, and realize that the EV you win will turn into money eventually.

How did you work this out be really helpful to know? The odds, thanks
 
antonis32123

antonis32123

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Very passively played . I don't understand why just check on the flop and on the turn . Take the lead , bet on the flop, on the turn and call his shove (if he had folowed the same betting lines ) . As for the river , no comment......
 
Beanfacekilla

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Hey everybody,

I have been playing 2NL for a couple months now and feel like I am playing pretty solid. From everything I've read table selection can be the single most important factor to improving win rates however playing with the fish seems to be causing me a lot of grief. Seems like I keep getting it in with good equity and getting wholloped by crazy draws on a regular basis. Down 5 buy in's as of this morning ><

Here's a perfect example of what I am talking about. Did I somehow misplay this? Mind you the fish on the button was playing 56/44/5.

No Limit Hold'em $0.01/$0.02
Winning Poker Network
6 players
Formatted by pokercopilot.com: Poker HUD for Mac and Windows

Stacks:
BTN - BTN ($1.93)
SB - SB ($2.00)
BB - Hero ($5.43)
MP - MP ($4.32)
CO - CO ($0.57)
BB - BB ($2.00)

Preflop: ($0.05, 6 players) Hero is BB with Th Ts
2 folds, BB checks, BTN raises to $0.12, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.10, 1 fold

Flop: 7d 4h 3d ($0.27, 2 players - BTN: $1.81, Hero: $5.31)
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.17, Hero calls $0.17

Turn: 2s ($0.61, 2 players - BTN: $1.64, Hero: $5.14)
Hero checks, BTN raises to $1.64 (all-in), Hero calls $1.64

River: 7c ($3.89, 2 players, 1 all-in - BTN: $0.00, Hero: $3.50)

Total Pot: $3.89
BTN shows 7s Js (with Three Of Kind of 7s)
Hero shows Th Ts (with Two pairs. 10s and 7s)

BTN wins $3.70 with Three Of Kind of 7s

We don't need results, we just need the hand....


3b preflop. 10-10 is way ahead of BTN raising range, we want value/protection. That is the first spot I think you went wrong, you're too passive.

So, imagine we 3b, we bet flop, bet turn, can easily call jam if V does that. Even with this line you got the money in ahead (but I shouldn't know that, results aren't necessary, and they bias people's feedback).

Play more aggressive. 3b pre from this point forward in a spot like this. If V 4b us, we can easily fold and move on.
 
Moonchild

Moonchild

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I agree with most above ... your play was way too passive. You had to protect your hand more AND I would not call BTN a fish in this hand. Chances are big he thought you were a fish, according to your play. That being said, most of the times, I don't agree with the term fish. It all depends on betting sizes, odds, outs, stack sizes and so on.
 
B

braveslice

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Against this player most EV play, but

We need to know more about this the player than vpip/pfr/3bet to do plays like this. Here his low 3bet suggest he can be quite passive post flop or not – we don’t know. Secondly this is high variance line. Thirdly this line gets you in trouble very easy, it makes you call too much hmmm how to say it, it changes your general attitude and mentality and makes you do lights call as a habit and gives you a bit too little heavy value lines. U know TPTK 3streets is good value line even vs. a bit tighter player if he don’t raise, especially in later positions.

Lower EV line, but easier in long run in general, is just to raise large, more often than not this player calls and gives you value at least 2 streets. Especially these any suited card players have hard time even folding to a shove preflop =)
 
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