Could I have played this better? KQ offsuit

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BigD23

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live game 9 players, guy with pocket QQ raises to 12, I call with KQ off, and asshole with 95spade calls. Flop is AsJs5d
So I have a gutshot and a runner runner nutflush draw. QQ bets 15 I call, 95S calls and turn is 10s giving him the flush, and giving me the straight with the nut/royal flush draw. Pocket queen bets again and I shove all in.

I am wondering if I should have reraised the QQ 12 $ preflop bet to 25? all I know was this was a horrible outcome for me.
 
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thomasguy3419

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What were your positions?
I'm guessing that you had the K of spades?
Why did you shove all in?
You had a straight but there was still a possible flush and another spade wasn't guaranteed to come up.
I would have tried to keep the pot smaller to see if the river gives me the flush or not.
I usually don't pay for gutshot straight draws or backdoor flush draws though.
 
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ph_il

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Why is the 95s player an asshole?
 
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ph_il

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What were your positions?
I'm guessing that you had the K of spades?
Why did you shove all in?
You had a straight but there was still a possible flush and another spade wasn't guaranteed to come up.
I would have tried to keep the pot smaller to see if the river gives me the flush or not.
I usually don't pay for gutshot straight draws or backdoor flush draws though.
The shove is fine with the nut straight + nut flush redraw. You can get called by worse and paid off, but also have equity of you're behind.

Also, if any other player was on a flush draw as well or also has a straight, you don't want to see a 4th spade as it would kill your action. So keeping pot small means you're losing value on a really strong hand.
 
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thomasguy3419

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The shove is fine with the nut straight + nut flush redraw. You can get called by worse and paid off, but also have equity of you're behind.

Also, if any other player was on a flush draw as well or also has a straight, you don't want to see a 4th spade as it would kill your action. So keeping pot small means you're losing value on a really strong hand.
Yeah but it's better to win or lose a small pot than to lose a big one.
Calling this turn is better than shoving for that reason.
Why would you go all in with a straight when there is a possible flush on the board?
I would have folded KQo to a legitimate raise preflop in the first place.
Calling a raise preflop with KQo is only asking for trouble.
 
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BigD23

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Yeah but it's better to win or lose a small pot than to lose a big one.
Calling this turn is better than shoving for that reason.
Why would you go all in with a straight when there is a possible flush on the board?
I would have folded KQo to a legitimate raise preflop in the first place.
Calling a raise preflop with KQo is only asking for trouble.

its a 100$ buy in 2-3 blind, 12$ was a very small bet
 
Xcoder

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A 3bet with KQ off is a strong play but I don't think its a very profitable move in most positions on a 9max table.
 
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ph_il

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Yeah but it's better to win or lose a small pot than to lose a big one.
Calling this turn is better than shoving for that reason.
Why would you go all in with a straight when there is a possible flush on the board?
I would have folded KQo to a legitimate raise preflop in the first place.
Calling a raise preflop with KQo is only asking for trouble.
I agree that just calling the PFR with KQ and only 33 BBs is bad.

However, as played, the shove is fine. With a straight and nut flush draw, hero is calling a bet on the turn and river. Hero only has $73 behind on the turn and if the turn bet is 1/2 pot, hero is priced in to call any bet on the river.

At this point, hero has no fold equity with the turn shove. However, if hero does have the best hand, this is the best way to get paid off because villain has priced themselves into a call. Especially if they're on a weaker draw. On top of that, if a 4th spade came out, the 95s might not call a river bet and hero loses out on value that could have picked up if they had shoved. Hero is getting 4.3:1 with their shove if they're behind, so the play has a ton of equity.
 
Pauliefromgoodfellas

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live game 9 players, guy with pocket QQ raises to 12, I call with KQ off, and asshole with 95spade calls. Flop is AsJs5d
So I have a gutshot and a runner runner nutflush draw. QQ bets 15 I call, 95S calls and turn is 10s giving him the flush, and giving me the straight with the nut/royal flush draw. Pocket queen bets again and I shove all in.

I am wondering if I should have reraised the QQ 12 $ preflop bet to 25? all I know was this was a horrible outcome for me.

I think you played it well. Not sure why the 95s is an asshole either. If you are going to reraise pf you want to have some fold equity when he has hands like a10s, a9s, and middle pocket pairs so raising to 35 would be better than 25 because you are giving him great odds to call with any hand and you're occasionally going to get 3bet off of you're hand when you would have had some equity. That said i think you should 3 bet in this spot around 5-10% of the time, the rest call.
The 15 dollar c bet on the flop is standard and you should mostly call here, I like the semi bluff shove against opponents that aren't calling stations, this assumes that you have $30-120 left behind. If you are shorter stacked you'll get called off by jj qq and kk as well as any ace but its not awful because youll still have at least 4 outs, and if you are super deep you are going to be risking a large amount to win a small amount and if you do this to often it will be -ev. You have tons of fold equity against tight players. With hands like aj and a10 they now can fold and hands like qq kk jj 100 can fold.

Overall, I like it, I think....
 
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I fold it on the flop with 2 other players.

Playing gutshot is bad in the long run.

With just 12 pre raise, you can even except the guy to even call with 23s. That's why you should raise and fold it to a reraise pre. If someone calls your raise, you already know you are behind.

KQo is junk if you are not gonna reraise it.
 
Senneville

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Yep you dont reraise preflop your hand . Maybe the result will not be the same. 9-5 s did he was the big stack? Did he show is hand earlyer and show suited cards? Did he play only suited cards?.

And your hand anyway not seems to be the nuts or the big hand here. You need to let it go sometimes. Can you fold KK- on a A-10-6 flop?

If you cannot try to loose not too much chips in this situation.

GL sir
 
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BigD23

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I think you played it well. Not sure why the 95s is an asshole either. If you are going to reraise pf you want to have some fold equity when he has hands like a10s, a9s, and middle pocket pairs so raising to 35 would be better than 25 because you are giving him great odds to call with any hand and you're occasionally going to get 3bet off of you're hand when you would have had some equity. That said i think you should 3 bet in this spot around 5-10% of the time, the rest call.
The 15 dollar c bet on the flop is standard and you should mostly call here, I like the semi bluff shove against opponents that aren't calling stations, this assumes that you have $30-120 left behind. If you are shorter stacked you'll get called off by jj qq and kk as well as any ace but its not awful because youll still have at least 4 outs, and if you are super deep you are going to be risking a large amount to win a small amount and if you do this to often it will be -ev. You have tons of fold equity against tight players. With hands like aj and a10 they now can fold and hands like qq kk jj 100 can fold.

Overall, I like it, I think....


I had about 170 behind :(
 
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BigD23

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Yep you dont reraise preflop your hand . Maybe the result will not be the same. 9-5 s did he was the big stack? Did he show is hand earlyer and show suited cards? Did he play only suited cards?.

And your hand anyway not seems to be the nuts or the big hand here. You need to let it go sometimes. Can you fold KK- on a A-10-6 flop?

If you cannot try to loose not too much chips in this situation.

GL sir

I turned the nut straight..... thats not a big hand? lol
 
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Preflop: KQo is not a very good hand to be flatting with ur stack. Raise is fine (as a steal), but fold>call.

Flop: You have a gutshot draw... not a good hand by any means, even if it is to the nut straight. Consider that u only really have 3 "safe" outs, as u don't want to see a 10s bc that means the flush is out there and will hurt ur action. This must be a fold.

Turn: The unsafe out has hit. Now ur in a tricky spot. Fold isn't an option so call or raise. I would probably have called bc when u raise there, u will always be getting called by a flush, and might push out the hands u want to call (two pair, set).

The fact that he had 95 suited is unfortunate but still...the flush was something to consider when u decided to draw to ur straight in the first place. :/
 
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BigD23

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Preflop: KQo is not a very good hand to be flatting with ur stack. Raise is fine (as a steal), but fold>call.

Flop: You have a gutshot draw... not a good hand by any means, even if it is to the nut straight. Consider that u only really have 3 "safe" outs, as u don't want to see a 10s bc that means the flush is out there and will hurt ur action. This must be a fold.

Turn: The unsafe out has hit. Now ur in a tricky spot. Fold isn't an option so call or raise. I would probably have called bc when u raise there, u will always be getting called by a flush, and might push out the hands u want to call (two pair, set).

The fact that he had 95 suited is unfortunate but still...the flush was something to consider when u decided to draw to ur straight in the first place. :/

with my holdings and the board I couldn't put him on any kind of flush hands that would have called preflop.

ace of spade out, jack of spade, 10 of spade, and my king of spade, thats 4 top spades that were out of play.
 
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RakeMyLife

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with my holdings and the board I couldn't put him on any kind of flush hands that would have called preflop.

ace of spade out, jack of spade, 10 of spade, and my king of spade, thats 4 top spades that were out of play.

You could say that about most anyone's hand when there's three to a flush on the board and u have one as well. Not a great way to rule out a flush. Virtually all suited connecters and gapped suited connectors are live here.
 
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I believe It would only be a wise decision to three-bet pre-flop with that hand If you have a good feel for the raisers raising range, and believe he only haves connectors, Even then, I don't believe that is the correct thing to do with a player still to act behind you. Yeah, sure It would have probably caused the player to fold the 9-5 suited. Or he probably would have called anyway because he had position. If he ended up calling anyway, You just would have lost more. If I was in your position, And believe the raiser only plays premium starting hand, and there is still a player left to act behind me, I wouldn't have three bet, I might have been more likely to fold.
 
Cmoneytaker5

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you should just make a bet to see where u are...there is a flush on the board and you are against 2 players so it's not unlikely for one of them to hit the flush...you do have the second nuts but it's the second not the first...just make a 50% of the pot bet and if one of them reraise shove then you fold.
KQo doesn't play so well so you should 3bet to make the guy with the 95s to fold...you should 3bet or fold prefolp
 
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pietpikel

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live game 9 players, guy with pocket QQ raises to 12, I call with KQ off, and asshole with 95spade calls. Flop is AsJs5d
So I have a gutshot and a runner runner nutflush draw. QQ bets 15 I call, 95S calls and turn is 10s giving him the flush, and giving me the straight with the nut/royal flush draw. Pocket queen bets again and I shove all in.

I am wondering if I should have reraised the QQ 12 $ preflop bet to 25? all I know was this was a horrible outcome for me.
QK off is such a weak hand. Fine to see a flop in late position or raise an unraised pot from late position but calling a raise is just asking for trouble. AA KK QQ is smashing you AK AQ is killing you. You are not in good shape against any reasonable hand (heads up), and will land up paying AK and AQ off.

Best just fold that dog and wait for a better situation.
 
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1putnik

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live game 9 players, guy with pocket QQ raises to 12, I call with KQ off, and asshole with 95spade calls. Flop is AsJs5d
So I have a gutshot and a runner runner nutflush draw. QQ bets 15 I call, 95S calls and turn is 10s giving him the flush, and giving me the straight with the nut/royal flush draw. Pocket queen bets again and I shove all in.

I am wondering if I should have reraised the QQ 12 $ preflop bet to 25? all I know was this was a horrible outcome for me.
All I can say, that was horrable all-in from you, as I understood you were betveen QQ and flush, you played on luck here and forgot about other opponent, who had position on you. And about rerase to 25, dont be kidding, its just cold-call on preflop with KQof.
 
GrouxLive

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You had a KQ off suite and an A on the board post flop. The QQ then bets 125% of the pot and you call on draws. You had an out, there was no reason to call that post flop bet. A hole Ace had you dominated, and his bet was strong which could mean pocket pair, or strong pair on the flop.

You had a gut straight draw and a runner-runner flush draw... so less than a 20% of hitting the cards you needed on the turn and river. Yet you called a post flop bet that was larger than the pot itself.A
 
Diegol

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Well you missread the hand, i think the turn id a flat call, you will induce the last player to call and then with the river you get your options i don't like the shove at all since there are a lot of combos they could have that have you beat, i mean one of them bet and the other one call the flop, if you don't shove you will get more info on the strenght of your hand
 
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Flat call

Def a flat call would have saved you some dough
 
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