Could I have folded?

pokerstars Game #19187353455: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2008/07/29 - 01:56:19 (ET)
Table 'Williams' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: KaNines84 ($9.75 in chips)
Seat 2: Arkadiy ($40.75 in chips)
Seat 3: licyeus ($4.35 in chips)
Seat 4: fivt ($27.10 in chips)
Seat 5: 2ndtanone ($34.30 in chips)
Seat 6: rmmarine ($10 in chips)
Seat 7: insolitude ($24.65 in chips)
Seat 8: trastras ($24.75 in chips)
Seat 9: CaspAce ($44.40 in chips)
trastras: posts small blind $0.10
CaspAce: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Arkadiy [Kc Ah]
KaNines84: folds
Arkadiy: raises $1 to $1.25
licyeus: raises $3.10 to $4.35 and is all-in
fivt: folds
2ndtanone: folds
rmmarine: folds
insolitude: folds
CaspAce said, "alright, here's your money back"
trastras: folds
CaspAce: calls $4.10
Arkadiy: calls $3.10
*** FLOP *** [Ac Jh 6h]
CaspAce: bets $8
Arkadiy: calls $8
*** TURN *** [Ac Jh 6h] [3d]
CaspAce: checks
Arkadiy: bets $12
CaspAce: raises $20.05 to $32.05 and is all-in
Arkadiy: calls $16.40 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($3.65) returned to CaspAce
*** RIVER *** [Ac Jh 6h 3d] [5d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
CaspAce: shows [Jd Ad] (two pair, Aces and Jacks)
Arkadiy: mucks hand
CaspAce collected $70.45 from side pot
licyeus: mucks hand
CaspAce collected $12.50 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $85.95 Main pot $12.50. Side pot $70.45. | Rake $3
Board [Ac Jh 6h 3d 5d]
Seat 1: KaNines84 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Arkadiy mucked [Kc Ah]
Seat 3: licyeus mucked [Td 8d]
Seat 4: fivt folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: 2ndtanone folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: rmmarine folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: insolitude (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: trastras (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: CaspAce (big blind) showed [Jd Ad] and won ($82.95) with two pair, Aces and Jacks

Haha, after that hand chat

CaspAce said, "to be honest, I knew I was in trouble when Arkadly flat called"
2ndtanone: calls $0.25
rmmarine: raises $0.50 to $0.75
CaspAce said, "he/she's been my nemesis at this table"
insolitude: folds
CaspAce said, "and he/she is solid"
CaspAce said, "so that was scary"

Depends on your read. The checkraise should say something. But I think you split this vs AK or win vs AQ more than you run into AJ. And a set most likely wouldn't bet the flop like that.

I think if you could have folded, it would have been on the check raise turn. Clearly the two of you had played a few hands together. If you knew he was also a good player, then I think a fold there would have been justified. Villian unlikely check raises without at least a split vs. AK. If it were me, I guess I would have folded in retrospect. Would not have been easy in the moment of play. Take that hand and play the villian back next time. Good luck.

Aren't you getting better than 3:1 to call?

If you want to find folds, what you need to do is try to keep the pot smaller so that a shove won't give you such lucrative odds to call. There are two techniques for this:

1. Make your bets smaller. In this particular case, with a pot that's 3-bet preflop, this option is limited.
2. Check back the turn. This, too, is not a great option for you since there's a possible flushdraw and a number of worse hands that can call you.

So if there's no real way to find a way to play the hand differently, you must mostly conclude that you've played it correctly. And if you've played a hand correctly and find yourself on the turn getting effective odds of >3:1 on a non-threatening board with AK on an ace-high board, then you must almost certainly call.

In betting $8 on the flop, you - knowingly or not - committed your stack if it comes to that. After that bet, there's basically no longer a way for you to find a fold regardless of what happens. The reason this is important is because it changes how you should think about the turn bet: It should no longer be a "milking" bet, it should be a "I'm playing for stacks, wanna come along?" bet. So when he shoves, you call, because that's what you were basically goading him into doing.

To paraphrase something I said in another thread recently: If you want to play better and increase your win-rate, there are probably lots of places to look for improvements. This, almost certainly, is not one of the first places you should look.

I agree as played there is nothing else you can do.

This is a spot though where I'd shove AK preflop when the action gets back to you.

I misread the preflop action. I'd probably shove too; your hand is never going to be a huge favorite and getting his $4 uncontested into the pot is probably not a bad thing. And if he calls with a weaker hand, then that's also awesome.

Aha, and I misread the flop action; you didn't bet the flop yourself, nor raised it. I agree with just calling the flop, though, since you have no incentive to try to get him to fold on an ace-high flop since some portion of his range is made up of bluffs, and you want to encourage him to keep bluffing - not to mention that by just calling you might encourage him to keep betting weaker aces, as well.

That is a tuff lay of the cards. Definitely hard to get away from. Sometimes you have to be willing to lay down what might be the best hand on the chance that it is not. Not sure if that makes sense or not. On the turn your hand did not improve but the villian played it ultra aggressive with a check raise all in. This is your out but a hard one to take.

F Paulsson said:

2. Check back the turn. This, too, is not a great option for you since there's a possible flushdraw and a number of worse hands that can call you.

Click to expand...

I might check behind the turn if I were against a smart, tight player. First, there's not much incentive for a tight player to bet the flop with a draw unless it's a combo draw. Remember, there's a player all-in so he still needs to hit the draw to win. If he bets you out with a draw, it kills his implied odds and hardly wins him the pot any more often. Secondly, a tight player isn't likely to pay you off for more than one bet with a weaker ace. His AQ should be playing scared because of the jack on the board. He doesn't beat any good ace on that board. So checking behind could win you close to the same amount when you're ahead and cause you to lose a lot less when you're behind.

Against your typical player, I like getting it all-in there just fine. They'll pay you off with more aces or could have been making a stupid flop bluff with a draw.

Edit: Oh yeah, and jamming it preflop is a good play as well. You can have the all-in guy dominated, and even if you don't it's nice to have that extra dead money in heads up.

Just to be clear on something: I'm not advocating checking back the turn in this hand. I'm just saying that if we're looking to make a fold somewhere, we must make sure that the pot is not very big, and then I listed two ways of accomplishing this. Of course, I misread the flop action, so way #1 is out the window anyway.

I would have checked the turn based on how the board reads: A J 6 with 2 hearts... and we know villian is playing with some sort of marginal hand because he says: "alright, here's your money back" to the player who is already all in, he is notexpecting hero to call, he thinks he is gonna play heads up against the other player. However, when the flop comes he decides to bet, so what cards are his most likely holdings? I will say something like Ah - xh, Kh -Qh, J-J, or even 6 -6, any of these are likely to fold to a bet on the turn, nor are A -J, A-6 or now A-3, I know that we must charge drawing hands, but based on this evidence our hand is too small to make such a big bet, and we are facing a player who is all in who might have anything, so I think a check on the turn and a call on the river (wich I'm sure it wouldn't have been all in) would have been in place.

You put him on a likely flushdraw and then let him draw for free?