Check out what Mr Snake says here - limit holdem - do you agree???

https://www.cardschat.com/showthread.php?p=487037#post487037

Check out this link, and specifically what Mr Snake advises or comments. I`m not having a go at Mr Snake, he has some valid points.

However, as I`m new to Limit holdem cash games I feel his advice is different to a lot of other players. I think it might be a good discussion.

Thanks guys

Woo Hoo, a thread about me, I blush.

Well debate and argument are good and I welcome different opinions, I learn everytime I read here and every time I play so it's good.

I would start out by asking a general question or 2.

1) Limit Holdem game, UTG raises, you have 99, a few players left to act behind you. No reads. Do you:

a) Fold
b) Call
c) Raise

2) In limit holdem what do you think is a good percentage of times to see the flop when not in the blinds:

a) 6-8%
b) 10-12%
c) 14-17%
d) 19-21%
e) 25% or more

Let the debate begin.

U do understand I`m not suggesting u r wrong Mr Snake? I like to hear both sides of the argument/ debate

Absolutly.

There is usually no absolute right or wrong in poker anyway. I like to see other peoples perspectives. Thats how to learn.

mrsnake3695 said:

1) Limit Holdem game, UTG raises, you have 99, a few players left to act behind you.

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In the actual hand there was a limper UTG+1 and a raiser in middle position, you're 3 from the button with 99.

I'd disagree with

mrsnake3695 said:

Unlike no-limit, on of the keys to limit is post flop play and knowing when to get rid of a hand or when to call down or raise etc.

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.

In Limit, pre-flop play is more important than in No-limit. Think about the % of the money that goes in pre-flop on a Limit hand compared to the % on a typical No-limit hand. The post-flop bets in No-limit are bigger, so pre-flop play is more important in Limit.

1) Phil Hellmuth would say raise. I was just reading one of his books about limit. You can really put pressure on everyone behind you to fold and not let any more marginal hands into the pot. PP hold up better with fewer people in the hand. You are showing real strength by 3 betting and could isolate against the one raiser in front of you.

If he is a sqeeky wheel, never puts money in the pot, and you get reraised meaning he really has something big, then you may fold or call and see the flop before deciding.

2) I really play tight in limit since you really can't chase off people post flop. I would go between A and B. If you are seeing over 20% then you are really mixing it up in limit.

Bombjack said:

The post-flop bets in No-limit are bigger, so pre-flop play is more important in Limit.

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The fact that postflop bets in NL are 'bigger' only serves to make preflop decisions more important. Do you see why?

Dorkus Malorkus said:

The fact that postflop bets in NL are 'bigger' only serves to make preflop decisions more important. Do you see why?

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Errr, no. The post-flop bets in NL are always bigger in proportion to the pre-flop bets, no matter how big the actual pots. So while in NL you could happily call a raise and re-raise with pocket Threes if your stacks are deep enough, it's probably a bad play in limit because there will be proportionately less going in post-flop when you hit your set.

Bombjack said:

Errr, no. The post-flop bets in NL are always bigger in proportion to the pre-flop bets, no matter how big the actual pots. So while in NL you could happily call a raise and re-raise with pocket Threes if your stacks are deep enough, it's probably a bad play in limit because there will be proportionately less going in post-flop when you hit your set.

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You miss my point entirely.

You're splitting hands into two distinct 'parts' - preflop and postflop. This is a mistake, we should be looking at hands as a whole. Yes, an exceptionally skilled NL postflop player can probably make up for some preflop deficiencies somewhat by outplaying everyone, but the average or even a standard above-average but unspectuacular player will encounter many problems postflop as a direct result of poor preflop play.

You simply can't lessen the importance of preflop play in NL just because "more money goes in postflop". It's kinda like saying "It doesn't matter what I do in the first few months of setting up a new business because nobody makes much money in the first few months anyway".

mrsnake3695 said:

1) Limit Holdem game, UTG raises, you have 99, a few players left to act behind you. No reads. Do you:

a) Fold
b) Call
c) Raise

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6-max, I raise every time against an unknown. Full ring, I squirm and probably 3-bet anyway, figuring that my decision is usually close and that I'm comfortably good enough post-flop to make it +EV.

With some better reads, I'm more likely to fold if I know that it's a tight UTG raise I'm looking at.

I never, ever, EVER call in this spot. It's raise or fold.

2) In limit holdem what do you think is a good percentage of times to see the flop when not in the blinds:

a) 6-8%
b) 10-12%
c) 14-17%
d) 19-21%
e) 25% or more

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I don't really have a good idea of where I'm at myself with this, but I do know that the optimal number won't be the same for me as it is for many other people. Post flop skills, general style and opposition all play in too much for there to be a generic answer here. 6-8% is too low and 25% is (in full ring play) too high. Rest of the time it will, unfortunately, depend.

F Paulsson said:

6-8% is too low and 25% is (in full ring play) too high. Rest of the time it will, unfortunately, depend.

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So you think between 10-20% ???

listening 2 what u guys are saying

In limit, more so than NL, in the main u should be raising or folding rather than checking pre flop?