call this shove?

BelgoSuisse

BelgoSuisse

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only 16 hands on villain who is 40/11/3.

very scary turn card makes him shove. Do you call it with TPTK?

full tilt poker Game #6953295539: Table Trust (deep) - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 13:11:46 ET - 2008/06/24
Seat 1: terminator2k ($12.75)
Seat 2: GavinGoodrich ($25)
Seat 3: Brad Poker ($9.15)
Seat 4: Yashiro82 ($25.20)
Seat 5: BelgoSuisse ($25.35)
Seat 6: jwesbro ($55.95)
Seat 7: TBCSheldon ($49.75)
Seat 8: Shorty422895 ($37.95)
Seat 9: dymloy ($24.60)
GavinGoodrich posts the small blind of $0.10
Brad Poker posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to BelgoSuisse [Ah Kc]
Yashiro82 folds
BelgoSuisse raises to $0.85
jwesbro folds
TBCSheldon folds
Shorty422895 folds
dymloy folds
GavinGoodrich adds $0.10
GavinGoodrich folds
Brad Poker calls $0.60
*** FLOP *** [Ts Ad 7d]
Brad Poker checks
BelgoSuisse bets $1
Brad Poker calls $1
*** TURN *** [Ts Ad 7d] [Td]
Brad Poker bets $7.30, and is all in
BelgoSuisse has 15 seconds left to act
 
R

rllngn

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yea a scary card but dont see how u couldnt call, think maybe the player was tring to scare u, bet u never know, depends how long u and him been on the table, how did it end up?
 
KyleJRM

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Instafold.

Maybe bet more on the flop, though, to price out draws.

But as played, instafold. You don't stack off at this level with TPTK, and you definitely don't do it on a paired board with three to a flush.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Maybe bet more on the flop, though, to price out draws.
But we don't want to price them out! We want them to call! Because we're not going to pay them when they hit their draw....

Right?

Right?

You're honestly not thinking of calling this shove against an unknown are you? If I had a read of some sort this would be okay, but at low stakes these overbets can be nasty things as well as bluffs.
 
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BelgoSuisse

BelgoSuisse

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But we don't want to price them out! We want them to call! Because we're not going to pay them when they hit their draw....

Right?

Right?

You're honestly not thinking of calling this shove against an unknown are you?

but the shove is highly suspicious. Isn't that a really clumsy way to get value for a made flush?
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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but the shove is highly suspicious. Isn't that a really clumsy way to get value for a made flush?
Aren't your opponents really clumsy?

At 10$ NL, my experience is that these overbets are some 'tard who wants your money. Reads can push this to a call, but I'm folding for the most part.
 
ChuckTs

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Just because a move doesn't make sense doesn't mean it can't be a real hand. I think if we had like 50 or 100+ hands on the guy with the same stats plus some reads that he's bluffy I'd consider calling, but I think at only 16 hands he's still an unknown and I fold.
 
KyleJRM

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The way to deal with an overbetting bluffer is to hit something really good and induce the overbet.

TPTK on a flushed and paired board isn't good enough, it's way too thin to catch him.
 
BelgoSuisse

BelgoSuisse

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Well, i did call his shove and he showed KQo, no diamond, so he was only drawing to a J which he didn't get by the river.

So it did turn out well, i'm just not sure it's a not a money loser in the long term.
 
rwilson

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I would have folded that there I reckon. nice to see it paid off for you though :)
 
blankoblanco

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but the shove is highly suspicious. Isn't that a really clumsy way to get value for a made flush?

i wouldn't put him on a flush usually, i'd put him on a T if anything. i think this is a T that freaks out when the 3rd diamond gets there more than it is a flush

whether to call or fold is so player dependent. his bluff really made very little sense. the average player at these stakes in your position is never folding a flush here, rarely folding a T, and likely not fold top pair. i guess it comes down to how retarded he is and in what ways. it's hard to say whether this would be a winning or losing call vs a mostly unknown 40/11/3. those stats indicate he's probably bad, but could easily be bad in the way that would cause him to overshove a T here rather than make a nonsensical bluff that costs way too much
 
NineLions

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Well, i did call his shove and he showed KQo, no diamond, so he was only drawing to a J which he didn't get by the river.

So it did turn out well, i'm just not sure it's a not a money loser in the long term.

With only 16 hands on him I'm not sure about it either.

The only comment I wanted to add is his stack size, which makes it somewhat more likely that he's not a good player and is thinking, "buy the pot now with the scare card". I've found more of these players at $10NL playing with $5 on FullTilt than at $25NL on Stars, but they're probably everywhere.
 
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