Call or Fold? What would you do?

Y

YannickPoker1

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Hello Cardschat members,

I would like to know how I could've played this hand differently or if it was reasonable to fold the River Overbet. I did not have any info on that person since it was a ZOOM hand on PS. Some Feedback please!

Thanks in advance,
YannickPoker1

HAND:

pokerstars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

BTN: 103 BB (VPIP: 21.74, PFR: 4.35, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 24)
SB: 71.5 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
BB: 77.5 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 1)
UTG: 100 BB (VPIP: 12.00, PFR: 8.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 25)
Hero (MP): 245 BB
CO: 244.5 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 20.00, Hands: 7)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Jd Jh
fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, CO raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 6 BB

Flop : (19.5 BB, 2 players) 9s 6h 4h
Hero checks, CO bets 12 BB, Hero calls 12 BB

Turn : (43.5 BB, 2 players) 7d
Hero checks, CO bets 23 BB, Hero calls 23 BB

River : (89.5 BB, 2 players) 9c
Hero checks, CO bets 200.5 BB and is all-in, fold

CO wins 86.5 BB
 
VizziVizo

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He had an bigger overpair for sure, therefore, nice fold, dude;)
 
PokerNuts01

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He had an bigger overpair for sure, therefore, nice fold, dude;)
Why are you sure? He can have anything .. 88-AA or AKs.. Hero had to take advantage on flop.. He has no idea about the strength of the opponents .. 3bet flop is very important! If opponent raises 4bet shove then we can put it on TT+ or monster hand!
 
iosif18

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ffff

Very skilled fold.I suppose your fold is very good.
 
PokerNuts01

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Nice fold if you ask me
Flop : 9s 6h 4h
Turn : 7d
River : 9c
Ok.. we have 96479, no flush possibilities.. Which hand opponent may have to play overbet on river?? 200+bb?? Only 77 and 99 is safe/nuts hand. With AA/KK no sense to do something like that! This is 0.2 game, Hero must 3bet flop m8.
 
Aalexandar

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This is a great fold, it takes a lot of guts to fold here. To be completely honest I'd be torn, but I think I'd call this on the fact that this is .02 and players are wild down there. I respect your decision to fold, but I have a bit of a looser playstyle personally. He could be holding anything really, the guy just kept firing away every street. He could have hit top pair with A9 or K9 and just completely donked out post flop, or he could be holding low pocket pairs. If we had more info on this specific player as opposed to just 7 hands this might have been a much easier decision, but based on the fact that we know NOTHING about him I'd say you made a better decision than I would in this situation.

Hell, I'm a complete donk, I would've shoved on that flop right then and there when nothing bigger than J showed up. Don't listen to anything I say :rofl:
 
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YannickPoker1

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Why are you sure? He can have anything .. 88-AA or AKs.. Hero had to take advantage on flop.. He has no idea about the strength of the opponents .. 3bet flop is very important! If opponent raises 4bet shove then we can put it on TT+ or monster hand!

Alright! I'll take note of that!! Flop 3bet would have provided me with lots of info!
 
Y

YannickPoker1

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Flop : 9s 6h 4h
Turn : 7d
River : 9c
Ok.. we have 96479, no flush possibilities.. Which hand opponent may have to play overbet on river?? 200+bb?? Only 77 and 99 is safe/nuts hand. With AA/KK no sense to do something like that! This is 0.2 game, Hero must 3bet flop m8.

Alright then! I'll make sure to 3bet Flop in a similar situation next time! Thanks for your feedback and reasoning bro!
 
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he 4bet you pre flop, so he might holding QQ and better and triple barrel bets with wooping 200bb on river, thats some thing juicy... for sure he was not holding 9 or anything like 85 s etc... other wise there will be value bets .
For long run your fold is good here ... but for me it was snap call. As per me QQ's and better never 4bets preflop they shove. So he must be holding 10's or lower pokets..
 
Y

YannickPoker1

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he 4bet you pre flop, so he might holding QQ and better and triple barrel bets with wooping 200bb on river, thats some thing juicy... for sure he was not holding 9 or anything like 85 s etc... other wise there will be value bets .
For long run your fold is good here ... but for me it was snap call. As per me QQ's and better never 4bets preflop they shove. So he must be holding 10's or lower pokets..

That is something interesting! So you would have snap called on the river? I mean..., Why would he shove for 200bb.. Was he scared of a 9?? Did he have the nuts and thought I was a calling station so overbet pot to maximise value? I really don't know.
 
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I'm confused about villains stats, how does he have 33%vpip and 20%preflop 3betting out of 7 hands???

Also, if he does have a 20% 3bet range with 33%vpip over a decent sample size - this is way more often a bluff then a value bet and should be a snap call.
 
Aces2w1n

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I would've 4bet or at least raised somewhere in this hand.


hmmm bet on river makes absolutely no sense. I'm inclined to snap call.
 
RidersFan

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I think check calling the turn put you in the guess on the river situation. I would like to see a check raise on the turn to narrow your opponents range. That would allow you to block the river or if you check the river you may get a check back.
 
terryk

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Busted flush draw,,,u were bluffed:deal:
 
IPlay

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Weird hand, I expect villain to check back a lot of his range on the river except AA/maybe KK but value jamming this run out just seems pretty thin for these stack sizes.

Folding is probably alright even though his line is quite... odd.
 
Figaroo2

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Was there any point in calling the turn and then not calling the river?
Was there any plan on the river for what cards you were going to call down on or fold to?
The problem is you are totally guessing and oop plus your lack of preflop 4bet and flop and turn check calls all make your range look fairly weak and unable to call a shove.
In zoom there is plenty of scope for light 3betting and aggro barrelling. His stats sort of indicate loose aggro tendencies so I fancy you are well ahead of his 3bet range beating all his Ax except A9.
So unless you want to guess on the end you need to clarify prior to the river. You could easily 4bet pre for value here and keep the initiative but I prefer to keep in all his wide range here.
As you are deep stacked I prefer something on the turn here, you could either lead out or check raise. If he reraises then you can fold much happier that he has you beaten.
The more strength you can get him to show in response to your betting the more certain you can be of his hand strength. You never tested him at any point.
So as played if you aren't planning to call the river on an undercard you may as well fold on the turn.
 
Y

YannickPoker1

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Was there any point in calling the turn and then not calling the river?
Was there any plan on the river for what cards you were going to call down on or fold to?
The problem is you are totally guessing and oop plus your lack of preflop 4bet and flop and turn check calls all make your range look fairly weak and unable to call a shove.
In zoom there is plenty of scope for light 3betting and aggro barrelling. His stats sort of indicate loose aggro tendencies so I fancy you are well ahead of his 3bet range beating all his Ax except A9.
So unless you want to guess on the end you need to clarify prior to the river. You could easily 4bet pre for value here and keep the initiative but I prefer to keep in all his wide range here.
As you are deep stacked I prefer something on the turn here, you could either lead out or check raise. If he reraises then you can fold much happier that he has you beaten.
The more strength you can get him to show in response to your betting the more certain you can be of his hand strength. You never tested him at any point.
So as played if you aren't planning to call the river on an undercard you may as well fold on the turn.

Will keep a turn bet to test his strength in mind in my next similar situation! I guess I would have folded to an overcard like an A or K. Still decided to fold due to the paired board as he could easily have A9s/o, and the overbet shove just seemed like he had it and tried to maximise value, seeing me as a calling station. Thanks for your feedback
 
T

Tricky123bet

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Will keep a turn bet to test his strength in mind in my next similar situation! I guess I would have folded to an overcard like an A or K. Still decided to fold due to the paired board as he could easily have A9s/o, and the overbet shove just seemed like he had it and tried to maximise value, seeing me as a calling station. Thanks for your feedback

I've had problems with the exact same situation at 2nl and 5nl full ring, and this thread is very helpful. Always been playing very passively with overpairs when I don't have initiative, but that won't happen again! :)
 
monkey23

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i also agree that a flop 3 bet might have been a good idea.

the only hand you could beat here was an ak bluff imo...

and to take a different line entirely, this hand was also a prime candidate for the Johnny Chan flop/turn combo play.... check call the flop, and then lead out on the turn....check out negreanu's youtube vid to see this play in action.

glgl to ya :)
 
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YannickPoker1

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i also agree that a flop 3 bet might have been a good idea.

the only hand you could beat here was an ak bluff imo...

and to take a different line entirely, this hand was also a prime candidate for the Johnny Chan flop/turn combo play.... check call the flop, and then lead out on the turn....check out negreanu's youtube vid to see this play in action.

glgl to ya :)

Will do! Thanks bro and glgl to you too
 
froggeedogs

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fold or no?

I think he saw weakness in your calling at every card. I would have raised on the flop. At least then you would have gotten a better read on him.
 
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