Call all in two pair on a wet board?

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Raibik13

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So I am in the BB, i have around $600 stack. The blinds were 1/2. Late position raises to $6, everyone calls, and i call.

I have 78d.The pot is around $36.

Flop is 7c8c10c. One guy shoves all in with $110. and next guy calls all in with $94. I have one more person to act behind me and i fold.

The turn is 7s and river Qs. The guys all in has Qd10s. The guy who calls has Ac5d.

What do you think about folding on the flop with the shove? I could have been drawing dead. Even if not i would have 4 outs to the river.

What would you do and why?

Just to add it up, the next few hands, i flop trips with King kicker and turn full house and he shoves in to me with trips with Queen kicker.

So i like the fold and i got my money back anyways from a fish.
 
sandund

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So I am in the BB, i have around $600 stack. The blinds were 1/2. Late position raises to $6, everyone calls, and i call.

I have 78d.The pot is around $36.

Flop is 7c8c10c. One guy shoves all in with $110. and next guy calls all in with $94. I have one more person to act behind me and i fold.

The turn is 7s and river Qs. The guys all in has Qd10s. The guy who calls has Ac5d.

What do you think about folding on the flop with the shove? I could have been drawing dead. Even if not i would have 4 outs to the river.

What would you do and why?

Just to add it up, the next few hands, i flop trips with King kicker and turn full house and he shoves in to me with trips with Queen kicker.

So i like the fold and i got my money back anyways from a fish.
With similiar kind of hands like this one in your case , just for example, after flop like 4,5,6 off...one or two opponents push all in ...I call with straight on first 5 cards ...which become the worst hand after turn and river...It is not just about bluffing...it is more about poker softwere who save bad players and force bad kind of playing.
 
Thinker_145

Thinker_145

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Its a good fold, your hand isn't strong enough to risk 50 BB against 2 players.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
 
STL FAN

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Clarification needed for this abstract post. Did small blind shove first to act? By the information given this member can only assume they checked.Your position would have been a good spot to find out how strong two pair would have been based on prior information. Information to think about in future situations what each would raise and call with also; flopped straight 85-1, flopped flush 110-1, flopped set happens around 18% or roughly two out of ten times. This player since this situation comes up many times on online poker and playing for straights or flushes, and two pair more than top pair. Understanding player tendencies in this situation is the information that is missed by most. For example, will my opponents shove with top pair or flopped straights or flushes? Do they over value marginal hands? These are just a couple of examples. In these situations also other information of how you would play their hands in this situation will give insight into what they actually hold without seeing their cards.

Questions to ask yourself, why would someone who flopped a flush shove with the nuts and not try to get value? Why would someone shove with a flopped straight with flush draw on board? Why would someone shove with a set instead of trying to make a value bet or bet for information to how strong their hand was in comparison to their opponents? These are just some of the questions to ask myself, but after asking all the questions the information supports to making this call because of the questions asked to myself and the experience from people who make these types of polarized bets to protect their hands from getting outdrawn. Repeating this process to gain the most information about every situation will help in saving bets and maximizing profits and the confidence that will come to make proper decisions for future situations; but this does guarantee victory because of the variance in these situations. What helps define any situations are your hands playing for the nuts or potentially paying off the nuts? This player always will put himself in the shoes of my opponent to think along with them this will allow to read their story for what it is and they will read my story in the same way. Detailed notes would have already been taken about my opponents to support the questions asked to myself otherwise, folding would have been the best decision because of limited information.
 
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Karozi615

Karozi615

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snap fold

3x pot open shove and then another player calls? your almost always beat in one spot.

The exception? live tells or information about the players that would enable you to make a light call.

In a vacuum? my cards are in the muck instantly.


Don't be results oriented, there are times where you could turn that 7 and still be drawing virtually dead.
 
Staneff

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I really see that most of people say this is a good fold. But this is poker. There is not bad decisions. Anyway "Fold now to be able to fold again later" works for tight players. I would call this and maybe I would suck it. So it's not YES! or NO! to play such hands. It's gamble or not.
 
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hffjd2000

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I would definitely fold likewise.

My two pair is not guaranteed to win the hand until showdown.
 
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Jonnobooth92

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Without a doubt i would fold that too many cards can beat you. Im a prolific bluffer though in tourneys with a lot of players 1000+ when the blinds and antes start increasing i find a good semi bluff shove to a pre flop raise is a great way to keep at the tourney average whilst waiting for the nuts to arrive
 
teepack

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I think that's an automatic fold given that two players were already in the pot. Too many draws out there for you think two pair would hold up. However, given that you had $600 or so already, which means I assume you were up substantially for that session, I don't think a call would have been a bad move. You could probably afford the $110 hit and the chance to win more than $200 was very tempting. Hard to argue with either option, really, and it worked out in the end.
 
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1blanqueanu1

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interesting

It is a very interesting hand. I think there might fold, would be good to know that you believed range of hands they had other players.
 
Aces2w1n

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I'd fold only because their stack sizes weren't deep enough.... If they were as deep as us... I'd call and hope to win that nice size pot... Sometimes you gotta gamble and go for the big win.

Top two pair would've been better or a set though to call... People live generally seem to be a lot worse.

I won a monster with J9 top two pair :) ... ran into tPTK and an overpair... So it's not uncommon that people shove with a pair.
 
Slawa1986

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Having a good hand on the flop sometimes it is necessary to make the tilt to lure the opponent!
 
TheBigFinn

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More information is required. How tight are the short stack pushers? The first push looks relatively weak to me. Given he has SPR is ~3, pretty much any bet commits him. In his position with a flush or straight, I'm check raising, not calling.

The caller stands to have a better hand than the original pusher, but how good would it have to be? The nut four flush has ~36% equity, so he is light with his call, hoping to see other calls behind. Not a bad bet, given flushes and straights now have the odds to call. I'd say that was the bottom of his range.

Hero has top 2 pair and looks to be good 70% of the time or more, losing badly to trips, flopped flushes & straights and is only 16% to improve. Call it 50/50.

This leaves the guy behind. If his stack is only big enough to call her loses another 10% equity, but gets paid for the loss.


Given unknown players Hero has to call, IMHO.

As the cards lay Hero has 47% equity (assume the 4th player folded) getting 3 to 1 on the call. Oddly if the QT was QQ, there almost no change in equity.
 
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VYtautasLu

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You chose right way to play that hand. I would be doing the same thing, but if I would be playing after emotional downswing probably I would be in for some bingo lol
 
ammytyagi

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Snap fold.
Your hand may win this hand but if you are calling such allin you gonna be on losing side.
 
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cornj4

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with having that much more then them i probably would of called be cause at least one if not both of them would of been on a draw and you still got outs to beat the flush or straight and if you did loose it wasnt that big of a hit to your stack
 
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CactusCat

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Even on a non-monotone flop, this would still be a trivial fold, especially in a limped pot. Every time I've seen this spot, it's a crazy two-way cooler like flopped straight over straight, or straight vs. top/middle set. There's really no excuse to go broke with bottom two here, it's just not that big a cooler for 7 8 if you get involved.

Something more interesting though is: What if you have 88, and all three players including yourself are 250+ bb deep? Do you always have to call with bottom set?

In terms of absolute hand strength, you've got a monster, but it is 'only' the 5th nuts.
 
Everybodylovesdeuces

Everybodylovesdeuces

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What cards do you assign to the first player who shoves? Certainly AT, JJ+, T8, any non-nut flush, any AcXx, a set and J9. We can probably take some of those weaker holdings out of the player who calls like AT unless it's the AcTx. Now, unless they are both maniacs, how is 78 holding up against those two ranges? Not so great. And even if by some miracle you are ahead of both hands, one or both of them will be a draw that could get there. It sucks but fold. There's way better spots to get it in.
 
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