****. bottom set 50max. lots of action

at a friend's w/o PT running.. nothing seems out of the ordinary though im newish at the table

pokerstars Game #9308194993: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/04/07 - 22:33:23 (ET)
Table 'Fortuna III' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: JCM3922 ($78.30 in chips)
Seat 2: sing_sing2-5 ($49.20 in chips)
Seat 3: 1stmren ($80.80 in chips)
Seat 4: MILAN125 ($22.85 in chips)
Seat 5: neer69 ($44.10 in chips)
Seat 6: mkers ($65.30 in chips)
Seat 7: scavengerz ($44.85 in chips)
Seat 8: joosebucklol ($48.70 in chips)
Seat 9: pokerscrat84 ($10 in chips)
1stmren: posts small blind $0.25
MILAN125: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to joosebucklol [3s 3c]
neer69: folds
mkers: folds
scavengerz: calls $0.50
joosebucklol: calls $0.50
pokerscrat84: folds
JCM3922: folds
sing_sing2-5: folds
1stmren: calls $0.25
MILAN125: checks
*** FLOP *** [6c 3d Ts]
1stmren: bets $17
MILAN125: folds
scavengerz: raises $27.35 to $44.35 and is all-in
joosebucklol: cringes

Wow, new at the table?? No reads?

Very tough, but looking at the preflop play, I can't see either slow playing 66 or 1010. Guessing slow play a big pair for one of them. But then again, with no reads you never know.

For me, still wouldn't lay down. I'd have to push here.

I would have to time-out because I wouldn't be able to hit the fold button. One of them has to have you beat. Pass on this hand and take a note. One of these two will pay you later.

Tough one indeed.

I'd drop this I think. 66 makes the most sense to me, but without reads who knows.

Yeah, I fold and take notes on what takes down the hand and the play of the other guys in it.

Do both of you guys really routinely fold sets (even bottom set), to two guys who didn't raise preflop??

I know they could have slowplayed a 66, some crazy-tricky playing, or a really tight player might have, but it's really hard to see anyone just call with 66. Just calling with AA or KK, does happen. Someone slow playing AA or KK here, on that flop, would do exactly what the reraiser on this hand did.

With better reads you could possibly fold, but with no reads, this has to be a push all-in.

Woweee this is a doozy...

The one thing that pops into mind (as was mentioned in a previous thread), is "Never go broke in an pot that was unraised preflop".


Can we really fold this though?

Just thinking about it, really do sets play like this? The first bet is just plain weak; not a chance in hell he's leading for that much with 66/TT. The push doesn't make sense for a set either. The board is hardly draw-heavy; why would he push to isolate? I definitely see two pair or maybe a slowplayed big pair do this though...

Anyways I think I've convinced myself to call

Yeah, scavengerz open-limped so even if it's not two pair, it could be a slowplayed big pair... I mean I think it makes as much sense as playing a set this way. I'm pretty scared we're going to see 66 here, but aggh, I think I have to call.

oh come on, this is an easy shove.

donk #1 bets 4897296* pot, usually i'd imagine this meaning some kind of draw, but there's no real draws he could have on that flop, 54 aside. TT and 66 are not betting so much on that flop unless the guy is trying a fake misclick strategy or something stupid.

sure, the other guy could have something, but ranges are so wide here (he could have Tx or whatever, and this is more probable than a higher set) folding is terrible.

shove - i don't really think it's particularly close simply because i'm not worried about the guy who's opened for 936754* pot, and without worrying about him we're up against a guy who's range we're still ahead of anyway with a ton of 'dead' money from captain donkalot in the pot.

with <100bb effective stacks on a T63r flop I'm invariably never folding a set.

edit: flop raiser (and even the donk who led flop) surely raises preflop with TT too? so we're only realistically afraid of one hand? POOOOOOSH

JimboJim said:

I would have to time-out because I wouldn't be able to hit the fold button. One of them has to have you beat. Pass on this hand and take a note. One of these two will pay you later.

Click to expand...

this is a ring game, not a donkament. even if you think you only have a tiny edge here (which i'd disagree with but let's roll with it), you should be pushing.

every time i see a post by you dorkus, i think of the movie snatch.


PokerStars Game #9308194993: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/04/07 - 22:33:23 (ET)
Table 'Fortuna III' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: JCM3922 ($78.30 in chips)
Seat 2: sing_sing2-5 ($49.20 in chips)
Seat 3: 1stmren ($80.80 in chips)
Seat 4: MILAN125 ($22.85 in chips)
Seat 5: neer69 ($44.10 in chips)
Seat 6: mkers ($65.30 in chips)
Seat 7: scavengerz ($44.85 in chips)
Seat 8: joosebucklol ($48.70 in chips)
Seat 9: pokerscrat84 ($10 in chips)
1stmren: posts small blind $0.25
MILAN125: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to joosebucklol [3s 3c]
neer69: folds
mkers: folds
scavengerz: calls $0.50
joosebucklol: calls $0.50
pokerscrat84: folds
JCM3922: folds
sing_sing2-5: folds
1stmren: calls $0.25
MILAN125: checks
*** FLOP *** [6c 3d Ts]
1stmren: bets $17
MILAN125: folds
scavengerz: raises $27.35 to $44.35 and is all-in
joosebucklol: calls $44.35
1stmren: calls $27.35
*** TURN *** [6c 3d Ts] [Qd]
1stmren: checks
joosebucklol: bets $3.85 and is all-in
1stmren: calls $3.85
*** RIVER *** [6c 3d Ts Qd] [Kh]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
1stmren: shows [Kc Tc] (two pair, Kings and Tens)
joosebucklol: shows [3s 3c] (three of a kind, Threes)
joosebucklol collected $7.70 from side pot
scavengerz: mucks hand
joosebucklol collected $132.05 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $142.75 Main pot $132.05. Side pot $7.70. | Rake $3
Board [6c 3d Ts Qd Kh]
Seat 1: JCM3922 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: sing_sing2-5 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: 1stmren (small blind) showed [Kc Tc] and lost with two pair, Kings and Tens
Seat 4: MILAN125 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: neer69 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: mkers folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: scavengerz mucked [Ad Ah]
Seat 8: joosebucklol showed [3s 3c] and won ($139.75) with three of a kind, Threes
Seat 9: pokerscrat84 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

haha

wp limping with AA, and i hope for KTs' sake that he mistyped 1.7 ;/

i would have to push all in too, although i agree that being the newest player could give you the disadvantage of not knowing how they play

are you sure? he OVERCALLED the raise all in though.

he had TOP PAIR

Dorkus Malorkus said:

this is a ring game, not a donkament. even if you think you only have a tiny edge here (which i'd disagree with but let's roll with it), you should be pushing.

Click to expand...

Lesson learned...I'm more passive than most but I guess it also has to do with your bankroll mentality. I'm usually on the minimum of BR for the stakes I play so I guess I'm a bit more cautious.

i meant are you sure he mistyped the $17 bet.

WTF!? all in every time. Wtf you thinkin about?

you havent got any info from the other players. There is absoultly no info you have got on them, they all just call the blind, they could have anything... prob nothing big but at least AJ, AT, Ax its only the blind, ****in anything. You havent asked any questions. In this situation, any level, im raising, and re-raiseing anything that comes at me. Up to u

sry not the greatest post but bare with me...

ya its still a call, but i wasnt too excited to click the call button. seems like with sets like to be the one with control. was just suprised to see so much action in front of me.

If was a good call. Giving the main villain credit for TT or 66 is too much. Even if we put him on a relative tight range of:

AcAd,AcAh,AcAs,KcKd,KcKh,KcKs,TcTd,TcTh,TcTs,TdTh,66,Tc6c,Td6d,Ts6s,Tc3c,Td3d,6c3c,6d3d,6s3s

and give the other a guy a looser range of:

T6s,T3s,63s,54s,T6o,T3o,63o (which turns out to be better than he had even)

then our equity here is: 50%

hence, push and like it!

Do you run through all the hands and suits in your head for every hand??

Wow.

i just do quick ranges usually.

I was talking about the guy who posted directly above me. He gave a list of like all the possible hands and even suits, lol. Very specific.

I don't think it's an obvious call, but also it's an unraised pot which widens their ranges to some 2 pair hands and limped overpairs. Also consider that there are still plenty of bad players at $50 NL who think top pair = nutz. You could certainly fold in a higher stakes game, but I think it's a call here, particularly with dead money from one player meaning you need to be ahead only a third of the time.

wizzerd

Dorkus Malorkus said:

with <100bb effective stacks on a T63r flop I'm invariably never folding a set.

Click to expand...

Invariably? It's not hard to conceive of a relatively extreme situation where bottom set would be a relatively easy fold on that flop with <100bb stacks. Although not so extreme to make it unrealistic, 'cause it's happened to me before.

(this is not exactly what happened, but the action was something crazy like this) Relatively tight table and 5 players in an unraised pot see a flop of 2 4 8 rainbow. SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets half pot, UTG+1 calls, LP calls, SB raises 4x the bet, BB re-raises 3x that, UTG shoves. If you're UTG+1 or LP with 22, it's a pretty easy fold against all but the most extreme set of players, no?

I didn't do anything complicated. I just popped it in pokerstove.

The range I gave was VERY tight, and thus makes this an automatic call. I didnt give KK+, but rather half of his AA , KK, TT (assumes he actually raises pf the other 50), every 66, and a couple times that he could have T6, T3, and 63, but not every (tightening the range).

50% was the lowest I think our equity was gonna get here. If we assume the AllIn was the only other opponent and put him on a range of QQ+, TT, 66, T6s, 63s, then check our equity - 70.87%!!!

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

26,730 games 0.005 secs 5,346,000 games/sec

Board: 6c 3d Ts
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 70.868% 70.87% 00.00% 18943 0.00 { 3c3s }
Hand 1: 29.132% 29.13% 00.00% 7787 0.00 { QQ+, TT, 66, T6s, 63s }

even if we take away T6, and 63 and QQ...

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 61.987% 61.99% 00.00% 11046 0.00 { 3c3s }
Hand 1: 38.013% 38.01% 00.00% 6774 0.00 { KK+, TT, 66 }


62%!!!

So again, I think we get it in here every time and feel good about it.