Bad Call or Good Call? (Pot Odds)

I was experimenting with Pot odds a little, and I made this call I would normally NOT do when playing with hunch. It's not the best of the calls to be honest, but according to my calculations had +EV.


Did I play it wrong. Can you please tell me what you people think?


NL10 Effective €7.69 (me)
Hero (BTN) Jh9d opens 3xbb
SB & BB call

Flop: 8d 4s Tc (POT €0.90)

SB checks
BB bets €0.63
Hero calls (Here I see I made a mistake calling, but hang on)
SB raises €2.40
BB re-raises €10.32
Hero calls (I was thinking about implied odds that the last guy will call)
SB calls

We are all all-in on the Flop
My pot odds are 20%, and my equity is 32% or so.

Now don't get me wrong. I know this wasn't a good play. I should have folded the the Flop bet, and I couldn't have known SB would call (even though he was pot comitted). It was hard to focus on the whole thing and calculating when Multitabling. But in terms of +EV, my investement was actually sound, no?



Thanks everyone.

P.S. I lost the hand

I say the "mistake" call is okay. The all in call is only okay if you really want to gamble.

I think your mistake is multitabling while your still learning. You said yourself that you were having trouble concentrating on what you were doing.

Well yeah. I usually have my game pretty okay even without calculating, not saying perfect now. So multitabling is fine. But when crunching real numbers, then yeah, not a very good idea.


Do you think people who multitable 16 24 tables do maths? No, they go by feel based on maths they had done before.

freestocks said:

I say the "mistake" call is okay. The all in call is only okay if you really want to gamble.

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Hi. I am not being smart or anything, but why do you think it's gambling when the payout is 4:1 and all I need is 2:1 to break even (disregarding rake)? Disregarding the position and uncertainty of the last caller?

You're neglecting their holdings. Your 32ish% equity isnt actually equity, its only your chance to hit your hand. Your equity against a set is only 25%. You have AT BEST 35%, but in this situation I doubt you'll ever have that equity once the hands are turned over. With my set I see your call and cheer every time, and right here BB should have a set unless he's a donk. And SB isn't calling unless he has a set too, or 2 pair or overpair, if he's a donkey he'll call here with AT sometimes. You always have to hit a card here to win, its not like you have TP and a straight draw. There are much better spots to stack off, with an easier decision making process.

The initial flop call 60c was fine, it's always fine. Some will argue your open pre was too loose, but this kind of hand is ok if you think SB and BB will fold a lot pre, as long as you don't get out of line if the flop is bad

GDBPoker said:

You're neglecting their holdings. Your 32ish% equity isnt actually equity, its only your chance to hit your hand. Your equity against a set is only 25%. You have AT BEST 35%, but in this situation I doubt you'll ever have that equity once the hands are turned over. With my set I see your call and cheer every time, and right here BB should have a set unless he's a donk. And SB isn't calling unless he has a set too, or 2 pair or overpair, if he's a donkey he'll call here with AT sometimes. You always have to hit a card here to win, its not like you have TP and a straight draw. There are much better spots to stack off, with an easier decision making process.

The initial flop call 60c was fine, it's always fine. Some will argue your open pre was too loose, but this kind of hand is ok if you think SB and BB will fold a lot pre, as long as you don't get out of line if the flop is bad

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Very good reply. For that reason I deliberately did not mention what they were holding, because after a war everybody is a General.

Yes, very good reply. I needed to hear something like this. You have a very good anticipation as well, even though it was quite clear one of them had Set shoving so mad.

So SB held KK (Flop 8% Turn 5%)
BB held 44 (66%, Turn 75%)
My Flop equity was 27% and Turn 19%

So my Flop odds were 20%, and my real (not presumed) equity was 25%. That's +EV 2.03

Although HEM shows me +5.62

Daithi said:

Very good reply. For that reason I deliberately did not mention what they were holding, because after a war everybody is a General.

Yes, very good reply. I needed to hear something like this. You have a very good anticipation as well, even though it was quite clear one of them had Set shoving so mad.

So SB held KK (Flop 8% Turn 5%)
BB held 44 (66%, Turn 75%)
My Flop equity was 27% and Turn 19%

So my Flop odds were 20%, and my real (not presumed) equity was 25%. That's +EV 2.03

Although HEM shows me +5.62

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It's definitely an interesting way to look at that kind of situation.

I'm definitely not at a stage where I would feel confident playing that kind of style, variance wouldn't be fun. If you're likely to tilt if you lose 10 of these in a row I'd avoid it, and would only go in to it with a massive roll, 50 buy-ins minimum, but 100BI's would probably be smarter and ideal

Good luck

Well that's okay if you want to gamble. You can put them on set, 2 pairs or same hand like you.
But generally that was a bad call just my opinion.

GDBPoker said:

It's definitely an interesting way to look at that kind of situation.

I'm definitely not at a stage where I would feel confident playing that kind of style, variance wouldn't be fun. If you're likely to tilt if you lose 10 of these in a row I'd avoid it, and would only go in to it with a massive roll, 50 buy-ins minimum, but 100BI's would probably be smarter and ideal

Good luck

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Sure. Thanks for your replies. I agree. It was a bad play. As it turned out it did have +EV. But with all the nuances involved it was badly executed and certainly not advised. I just wanted to hear what more advanced-and-experienced players think.


I appreciate your input. You were very accurate actually. Thanks alll for your replies.

StevanPoker96 said:

Well that's okay if you want to gamble. You can put them on set, 2 pairs or same hand like you.
But generally that was a bad call just my opinion.

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Sure, I cannot disagree with this. But all in all after cards were flipped it turned out to be a profitabke call in the end. A call with a huge varience, but paid off. Considering other details like not knowing about implied odds it was a dreadful call. In general it was a bad call. I agree. Thank you for your answer.

Daithi said:

Sure, I cannot disagree with this. But all in all after cards were flipped it turned out to be a profitabke call in the end. A call with a huge varience, but paid off. Considering other details like not knowing about implied odds it was a dreadful call. In general it was a bad call. I agree. Thank you for your answer.

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and i think like him it`s bad call

xe4ovek said:

and i think like him it`s bad call

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Mathematically? Present your argument please.

i like the open ended for the online games, they hit often

Draws hit online way more often than they do live for some reason.