Another tough hand...

Reads: NastyDogLex (57/34/4) = maniac, going to go bust at some point soon

Liffy x (48/14/2.5) = seems to be winning a lot but I don't have much of a read. Obviously loose pre-flop

Seat 1: xzenit ($44.70 in chips)
Seat 2: Bombjack_x [

] ($49.25 in chips)
Seat 3: Alan_Soyuz ($49.25 in chips)
Seat 4: iluvpoker89x ($145.80 in chips)
Seat 5: Jeremy-1986 ($80.95 in chips)
Seat 6: NastyDogLex ($65.10 in chips)
Seat 7: Liffy x ($99.50 in chips)
Seat 8: Django_M. ($28.50 in chips)
Seat 9: Qamarian ($40.95 in chips)
Seat 10: necipk1 ($28.75 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
iluvpoker89x posts blind ($0.25), Jeremy-1986 posts blind ($0.50).

PRE-FLOP
NastyDogLex bets $2, Liffy x calls $2, Django_M. calls $2, Qamarian folds, necipk1 folds, xzenit folds, Bombjack_x bets $10, Alan_Soyuz folds, iluvpoker89x folds, Jeremy-1986 folds, NastyDogLex calls $8, Liffy x calls $8, Django_M. calls $8.

FLOP ($40.75) [ board cards

]
NastyDogLex bets $3, Liffy x calls $3, Django_M. folds, Bombjack_x calls $3.

TURN ($49.75) [ board cards

]
NastyDogLex checks, Liffy x bets $20, Bombjack_x...

Fold.

Unless you think no one has a ace, or another diamond will give you the best flush.

Board hasn't paired, so you can't fill up... let it go.

3 people in pot, an ace and your drawing to a ten high, four card flush draw. Who cares if theyre loose idiots, you fold anyways with that action

I'm 22% to improve to a flush or set on the river. Pot's offering me 70:20 so I need 22% equity to call.

I might actually be ahead, since there was no meaningful bet on the flop.

But the ten-high flush might not win.

It's definitely not a clear fold.

its a pretty clear fold if you have 20-20 vision. I rather pass on calling $20 on THE TURN(theres another card that comes out, called the 'lake' or something').

Seriously, you invested like $5, you have to call $20 with another card coming out. 2 People in pot. Drawing to a 4 card 10 high flush draw. Theres an ace on board. Its just not worth it, lose the $5 and save $20. What are you going to do if you call and the river cards a Diamond and they bet? What if its not a diamond if they bet. Calling $20 to a $15 pot and you have a 1:5 chance of making a flush, that might not be good!

Shit: my bad, i just saw all the preflop action. Scratch all the stuff above, i still fold, i think theres some usable material up there.
Shit: #2, i think my line about what are you going to do on the river if its a diamond or not and they bet is good. I still think its a clear fold. If theyre maniacs, why rush to draw to a 10 high flush. Way for a better hand

i think we raise that flop pretty hard. its likely that 3 is a feeler for a weak ace/medium pp/flush draw. i think if we show aggression again we can take this pot there.

He bet the scare card. I think there's a pretty good chance you are ahead of him here. He probably put you on PP since you didn't raise the $3 flop bet on an A high board. Easy deduction for him, and now he's making a move to take it down on a flush board. He's obviously more concerned about you than nastydog. There is a good chance he's got nothing here, he could have called with KQ, KJ, QJ even K9 PF (you said he's a loose caller PF). The problem is the other player still in the hand, although a shove should take care of him.

One of those tough NLHE situations, I like a risky shove here but I also can't disagree if you folded, it is risky.

joosebuck said:

i think we raise that flop pretty hard. its likely that 3 is a feeler for a weak ace/medium pp/flush draw. i think if we show aggression again we can take this pot there.

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There's about $40 in the pot and I have about $40 left... so you think bet about $20 and fold if someone comes over the top or calls? Or just shove? I don't much like shoving when I'm only likely to be called if I'm behind, and one of them could very well have an Ace.

So then why call $20, your likely behind too. Clear fold

Do you think if he has an Ace, he bets $20 into a $50 pot with a 3-flush on the board? Unless maybe his kicker's a high diamond.

I don't think he has an A, he either has a flush or crap. I think there's a pretty good chance nastydog has an A, but I think if you shove he folds. It's risky, that's granted, but I disagree that its a clear fold.

Bombjack said:

Do you think if he has an Ace, he bets $20 into a $50 pot with a 3-flush on the board? Unless maybe his kicker's a high diamond.

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Ace with high diamond= your double screwed.

This is an easy fold and i think they both have crap and you folded and your mad. Or you played it to the river, lost and want to justify you didnt mess up. I dont see how this is anything but a fold.

Bombjack said:

I'm 22% to improve to a flush or set on the river. Pot's offering me 70:20 so I need 22% equity to call.

I might actually be ahead, since there was no meaningful bet on the flop.

But the ten-high flush might not win.

It's definitely not a clear fold.

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To improve to a flush that might not be best, and a set that may be worthless.

There maniacs, agreed... but can you put both of them on a bluff. There are too many things that need to go right for you to take this pot, and the odds you state are if you are not drawing dead.

Hell, if there that crazy, someone may have played 84o and your behind to two pair.

Again, easy fold.

mischman said:

Ace with high diamond= your double screwed.

This is an easy fold and i think they both have crap and you folded and your mad. Or you played it to the river, lost and want to justify you didnt mess up. I dont see how this is anything but a fold.

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You missed out the further possibilities
a) one had [kd][qd] and I made a good fold, and
b) I played it to the river, hit my card and won a huge pot.

mischman said:

Ace with high diamond= your double screwed.

This is an easy fold and i think they both have crap and you folded and your mad. Or you played it to the river, lost and want to justify you didnt mess up. I dont see how this is anything but a fold.

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I doubt BJ is really being results oriented, but I do agree with misch (wait did I just say that?); OK, I kinda agree with Misch, for some of teh same reasons some different. But anyways, yes there is a chance that you're ahead here--but most of the time, in this given situation, you are behind.

I don't see any reason to risk that much money. You've only put about $13 in here, and there are way too many things that need to go perfect for you to win.

Also, it seems like we're forgetting the first person to act who checked. Flush there, with 2 other people to act, does check at times. He could have turned the flush, and been slow playing to get a situation that presented itself--one big raiser and another one contemplating a move. There's no need to risk anything here. If it was HU, maybe, but in a 3-way pot, no need to get frisky. After analyzing everything, best move is fold.

hott_estelle said:

Also, it seems like we're forgetting the first person to act who checked. Flush there, with 2 other people to act, does check at times. He could have turned the flush, and been slow playing to get a situation that presented itself--one big raiser and another one contemplating a move. There's no need to risk anything here. If it was HU, maybe, but in a 3-way pot, no need to get frisky. After analyzing everything, best move is fold.

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I think this is the better reason a fold seems right. Wait and take his money in a better spot.

He doesn't even need a 2 card hand to have you slaughtered. If one of them has JUST the Ace of diamonds you're way behind. All lot of online players will call with any dry ace, and that's all someone needs here. Get them next time when you have a definite advantage in the hand.

If i was in it id probably fold it but now that you posted it, i can see some reasoning to stay in the hand.

Nasty has been incredibly weak so he probably has crap. So perhaps liffy has a high diamond and sees Nasty weak and decides to make a play at the turn.

So you could very well be ahead here.

But i dont like a call since say a diamond hits river and liffy bets again, do we call? Or a blank hits river and liffy bets again?

If we call 20 we have 20 left, so if a diamond hits youll call the 20 for the possibility that liffy has an ace and no diamonds?

And if a blank hits and liffy bets, youll call 20 for possibility liffy had a high diamond only?

I dunno, its a bit 2 messy 2 think about lol.

77 i raise 25x BB preflop, 8 callers. Flop AK2 all the same suit as one of my 7s. 3 people go all in before me, i fold. That is not a good fold that is a common sense fold

Bombjack said:

It's definitely not a clear fold.

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For reasons already stated, yes it is. Your flush/set may not be good if you hit them, and the reverse implied odds if you hit your flush are terrible.

Bombjack said:

You missed out the further possibilities
a) one had K♦Q♦ and I made a good fold, and
b) I played it to the river, hit my card and won a huge pot.

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What did he have? is the square a heart or diamond? What was river?

Who cares if you won. You made a bad call on that board in a 3 waa pot. Im sure on my 77 hand, if i go all in there 100 times, ill catch running fullhouse a few times and win. Say on my 77 hand theres only 2 all ins, im sure if i go all in there, i say 1 out oif 50 hands ill have the best hand. but the other 48 i lose(the other 1 hand i get lucky).

Dorkus Malorkus said:

For reasons already stated, yes it is. Your flush/set may not be good if you hit them, and the reverse implied odds if you hit your flush are terrible.

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How about if I had [kd][kc]?

Bombjack said:

How about if I had K♦K♣?

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Then it possibly would be a tough hand, but the hand you posted isn't. The other one you posted, AQ on an board with 2 Aces, i'd rather call that one than this one by some margin.

I'm just being results-oriented then.

I folded and he showed .

Bombjack said:

I'm just being results-oriented then.

I folded and he showed .

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mischman said:

Ace with high diamond= your double screwed.

This is an easy fold and i think they both have crap and you folded and your mad. Or you played it to the river, lost and want to justify you didnt mess up. I dont see how this is anything but a fold.

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^^^^