AK PT Stats Analysis.

Jagsti

Jagsti

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Right then, we have a lot of hand analysis threads regarding AK. I have to admit it's a hand that I regularly play, but I get into great difficulty with.

I'm asking you cash game nuts, what is your AKo and AKs PT Stats. Screenshots please then we can analyse to our hearts content.

I'll start then. Over 160,000 database hand sample:


So the stats that interest me are BB/hand, W$WSF (%age of times won $ when seeing flop), WtSD (%age of times player went to showdown) and W$SD (%age of times player won $ at SD).
 

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Jagsti

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With regards to my stats, I certainly think that the bb/hand is way to low. I'm not sure what a standard rate is but it seems lowish to me, comparisons here would be good. Also the WtSD figure seems low, am I giving up too early with this hand?
 
zachvac

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Only a little over 31k hands, but here's mine
 

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Jagsti

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Zach you seem to be gaining a small edge on me in terms of bb/hands, about 0.12/hand. But apart form that there pretty similar stats. Funny how that AK is only 50% winning hand at SD.
 
zachvac

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At showdown, it makes sense that AK wins around 50%, in fact I'm surprised it's that high. At showdown we're only seeing the hands where opponents found it worthy to reach showdown. Obviously if neither of us pair and we check it down we win, but most of our wins will come from non-showdown hands.

For example I'm always 3-betting AK or raising an unraised pot, and I assume you are as well. For this reason, we're playing pots that are pretty big preflop. Most of these pots we win or lose without a showdown. I've won quite a few pots from leading out for ~3/4 of the pot after getting my 3-bet flat called. Not sure if this is TT/JJ type hands folding when there's a low flop or other similar hands like AK-AT but leading out after the 3-bet preflop represents the high pair, and the best part is even if we get called, we likely have 6 outs. But the point is ost of the time people fold to these, or if they raise me I'm folding. Rarely do big pots preflop go to showdown when one of these hands is AK. KK vs. AA goes to showdown almost all the time, how often does any hand vs. AK do that in a cash game? Sure if the flop comes AK9 and villain had 99 we could get stacked here or even AQ vs. AK on the AK9 board. I'd be interested to see the average size of the pot when AK does go to showdown, I'll see if that's possible to get.
 
ChuckTs

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tbh I'd rather not show mine right now as I'm actually losing with AK long-term. Something I've been looking into lately.

Looks to me like you should be raising it more often, jagsti - %80-90 seems small.
 
Jagsti

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tbh I'd rather not show mine right now as I'm actually losing with AK long-term. Something I've been looking into lately.

No problem Chuck I certainly understand your stance here. I respect your posts 100% and your views.

Maybe I'm trying to rush these things with these 2p2 type of post/analysis. You see whilst 2p2 has some amazing strategy and in depth analysis, there are some total ass's who comment and post there as well. Posts get locked left, right and centre there with the simplest of questions. I love the CC relaxed type of attitude, but I still think there's a lot of items we can take from 2p2 and improve as players, whether thats in cash, sng's or whatever. I know there are only a handful of experienced players who regularly post on the cash game threads, but maybe we need to start looking into each others games and taking the good/bad points form our games and improving. FWIW I'm going through a horrible downswing (20+ BI's) ATM but if people on here want to know anything about it, regarding stats or whatever then I'd certainly post it. That is certainly not a criticism of you Chuck I respect your decision, I would just like to take this cash game thing to a new level for me and maybe getting others members (old + new) in here posting there cash game experiences as well.


Looks to me like you should be raising it more often, jagsti - %80-90 seems small.

Yep I agree with you here wholeheartedly. But for some reason I get really results oreintated especially with AK. If I'm on a bad run with it then yep I start calling pf etc


^^^^ comments in bold.
 
ChuckTs

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Oh, I'd definitely be down for the stats/graphs analysis threads and all that good stuff from 2+2, but as you said (no offense to anyone here) there really aren't that many people on cc who are experienced enough to give a useful opinion if we were to post stats.

I know that I myself wouldn't be able to give too good of an analysis.

Anyways I'm definitely up for really cracking down and studying more, but I'm not really sure what next steps to take aside from posting HHs.
 
Jagsti

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Oh, I'd definitely be down for the stats/graphs analysis threads and all that good stuff from 2+2, but as you said (no offense to anyone here) there really aren't that many people on cc who are experienced enough to give a useful opinion if we were to post stats.

I know that I myself wouldn't be able to give too good of an analysis.

Anyways I'm definitely up for really cracking down and studying more, but I'm not really sure what next steps to take aside from posting HHs.

Interesting thoughts Chuck. You see Im not a young lad anymore :D. so studying and trying to absorb strategies take time and patience with an ole timer. I really wanna study more, and this would be best served sharing experiences on here. But as you say we are limited in the amount of ppl who post in here ( quantity wise i mean :D ). Come on guys let's get this cash game section going :).
 
tenbob

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AK is a hand that I used to have great difficulty with, I used to totally undervalue it, and i give the hand much much more merit since I moved to nl$100. Anyway here is the stats, there is a raft of nl25/50 hands included here, so my BB/100 excluding here is likely much higher, didnt want to spend any more time on the PT filters than i had to.

Edit : Sorry about the white screen, thought i cropped it :(
 

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Jagsti

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Liam, thx for showing this. Now it's really interesting to see your BB/100 at 0.85. Do you think this is a figure is common, or do you think your running hot with AK? That's a fairly big difference from my figure of 0.37. Other than that our stats are relatively similar. I wonder if you are playing it more aggro than me on flop?

Another interesting point with your's and zach's figures are that you guys win more with AKs than with AKo whereas i'm the opposite. I wonder if that's b/c I'm playing flush draws to aggro and not hitting them?
 
ChuckTs

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From 'more details':
 

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tenbob

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Liam, thx for showing this. Now it's really interesting to see your BB/100 at 0.85. Do you think this is a figure is common, or do you think your running hot with AK? That's a fairly big difference from my figure of 0.37. Other than that our stats are relatively similar. I wonder if you are playing it more aggro than me on flop?

Another interesting point with your's and zach's figures are that you guys win more with AKs than with AKo whereas i'm the opposite. I wonder if that's b/c I'm playing flush draws to aggro and not hitting them?

Dunno, I think looking at hands like this in isolation is a little skewed. Even over 100K hands we are looking at a small amount of hands, and there is always going to be a lot of variance between the results. I win the most from AK hands when I 3 bet and lead flops just like I'd play a big pair. Ive flopped a few nut hands with them as well against second best hands and won a few stacks. So yea i'd say im on the better side of variance here but I could'nt put a quantitive amount on it. Id certainly say that you should be winning a little more with them, have a look at a few of the bigger pots you lost with AK and see did you get in bad or get sucked out on. 5 or 6 stacks lots like this will have a big bearing on your winrate.
 
tenbob

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Jagsti

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Looking at your stats Chuck, your running sick hot with AKs, and on a mega cooler with AKo. Your WtSD % seems low compared to others, esp AKo.
 
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