AA facing an oes board

[BelgoSuisse]

Board starts rather safe, and gets scarier and scarier with turn and river.

full tilt poker Game #7071267458: Table FTP Forum - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 14:35:32 ET - 2008/07/03
Seat 1: longboarder48 ($32.90)
Seat 2: sini2010 ($8.20)
Seat 3: pigpenmck ($8.35)
Seat 4: Jazzy18 ($23.40)
Seat 6: sean4600 ($36.85)
Seat 7: xaucomet ($5.70)
Seat 8: Ro-Dub23 ($11.40)
Seat 9: BelgoSuisse ($36.35)
Jazzy18 posts the small blind of $0.10
sean4600 posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to BelgoSuisse [Ah As]
xaucomet folds
Ro-Dub23 folds
BelgoSuisse raises to $0.85
longboarder48 calls $0.85
sini2010 folds
pigpenmck folds
Jazzy18 has 15 seconds left to act
Jazzy18 is sitting out
Jazzy18 has timed out
Jazzy18 folds
sean4600 calls $0.60
*** FLOP *** [2s 6d 9h]
Jazzy18 has returned
sean4600 checks
BelgoSuisse bets $2
longboarder48 folds
sean4600 raises to $4
BelgoSuisse calls $2
*** TURN *** [2s 6d 9h] [7s]
sean4600 bets $5
BelgoSuisse calls $5
*** RIVER *** [2s 6d 9h 7s] [8d]
sean4600 has 15 seconds left to act
sean4600 bets $12

 

[BelgoSuisse]

reads: villain is 41/13/3 over 40 hands.

 

[WVHillbilly]

You should have 3bet to $12 on the flop. What are you scared of here that takes his line other than a set (maybe pocket 10s)?

 

[BelgoSuisse]

You should have 3bet to $12 on the flop. What are you scared of here that takes his line other than a set (maybe pocket 10s)?

what do i accomplish by 3betting the flop? I don't think i get called by many hands that I beat if I do. and i don't fold any hand that beats me

 

[t1riel]

I would have raised on the turn. If he calls, you are probably beat.

 

[ChuckTs]

what do i accomplish by 3betting the flop? I don't think i get called by many hands that I beat if I do. and i don't fold any hand that beats me

he's a 40/13, he'll call with plenty worse. He may even rebluff/resemi-bluff.

I say just ship it in on the flop. Being this deep kinda sucks, but I'm still ok with stacking the flop.

 

[WVHillbilly]

what do i accomplish by 3betting the flop? I don't think i get called by many hands that I beat if I do. and i don't fold any hand that beats me

Against a bad player any overpair likely gets it all-in on the flop if you'll allow.

 

[Richyl2008]

Pretty tough spot, I think having some notes/reads on this player would be extrememly helpful in situations like this. At first glance it really doesn't appear that he has a set on the flop. The flop texture is very dry and he really doesnt need to worry about protecting his hand if he has it. If he had a set I dont think most players would checkraise here, because that is a pretty strong line that might scare away his action. At this point I would probably put him on a range of A9, 77,88,1010,JJ. I would probably call here to see a turn card and evaluate villains actions to get more information cheaply.

He makes a small bet on the turn, which I think narrows his hand range down even further, most likely eliminating all of his sets. The turn card makes the board become very drawwy, so if he had a set he probably would bet more to protect his hand or get value before a cooler card comes. Weak turn leads are usually weak hands/draws IMO on drawwy boards. At this point I'd probably raise it and commit to any river call. I dont believe he has a set from the line he has taken. I think that he would bet more with random 2pairs here as well. If villian doesnt understand bet sizing, or how to extract value very well though, it's gonna be almost impossible to put him on a range, but those are usually the same players that will stack off with A9 type hands here as well. Just my opinion of course....

 

[OzExorcist]

what do i accomplish by 3betting the flop? I don't think i get called by many hands that I beat if I do. and i don't fold any hand that beats me

Chuck's pretty much said it. You also charge the villain to draw at you, if that's what they're doing.

Looking at the action, there are only a few possible categories of hands villain can have. They called a raise before the flop, so they're unlikely to have two pair. They might have TPTK, an overpair, 78 for the straight draw, unpaired paint or a set.

You're ahead of all but the last one. The overpair should definitely give you action if you raise, the straight draw might semi-bluff you if it's feeling frisky, TPTK may also give you action (depending on the opponent - though few people play A9 to fold it when they hit TPTK with it).

If the villain folds then you probably weren't going to get any more value out of the hand anyway, unless they outdrew you. I think it's OK to stack off on this flop.

 

[BelgoSuisse]

BelgoSuisse calls $12
*** SHOW DOWN ***
sean4600 shows [9d Kh] a pair of Nines
BelgoSuisse shows [Ah As] a pair of Aces
BelgoSuisse wins the pot ($42.45) with a pair of Aces

A bit surprised about the result. River is a crying call as I should be behind a two pairs, a set or a straight a lot of times.

I understand what most of you say about reraising the flop, but we're really deep here, both with about 150 big blinds. isn't it a bit too deep to stack with an overpair?

 

[light65536]

I had something similar happen on this board. I pushed all in because the pot was big enough for me to take it down. I was surprised I was only a 65% favorite to win but that's still pretty good on this board. I didn't want to even give even 1 card priced at a value. I'm not saying I played this right but I got my money in when I was a favorite and if someone had the straight on the flop then I'm going bust anyway. Of course at .01/.02 I get callers.. and then they suck out.

pokerstars Game #18567815968: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2008/07/03 - 23:49:20 (ET)
Table 'Felicia V' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Missys_Dad ($3.35 in chips)
Seat 2: Loonie3006 ($9.36 in chips)
Seat 4: mr.fireworks ($6.94 in chips)
Seat 5: light65536 ($3.67 in chips)
Seat 6: Dragon62 ($2.75 in chips)
light65536: posts small blind $0.01
Dragon62: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to light65536 [Kc Ks]
Missys_Dad: calls $0.02
Loonie3006: folds
mr.fireworks: raises $0.04 to $0.06
light65536: raises $0.11 to $0.17
Dragon62: calls $0.15
Missys_Dad: folds
mr.fireworks: calls $0.11
*** FLOP *** [9d 8d Jc]
light65536: bets $3.50 and is all-in
Dragon62: calls $2.58 and is all-in
mr.fireworks: folds
Uncalled bet ($0.92) returned to light65536
*** TURN *** [9d 8d Jc] [8s]
*** RIVER *** [9d 8d Jc 8s] [7d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
light65536: shows [Kc Ks] (two pair, Kings and Eights)
Dragon62: shows [8c 7c] (a full house, Eights full of Sevens)
Dragon62 collected $5.44 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $5.69 | Rake $0.25
Board [9d 8d Jc 8s 7d]
Seat 1: Missys_Dad folded before Flop
Seat 2: Loonie3006 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: mr.fireworks (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: light65536 (small blind) showed [Kc Ks] and lost with two pair, Kings and Eights
Seat 6: Dragon62 (big blind) showed [8c 7c] and won ($5.44) with a full house, Eights full of Sevens

 

[dsvw56]

Does anyone like checking the flop back here?

 

[light65536]

My opinion on flop checking: I only check against super aggressive who bluff too large a stack or if I want to check-raise them and build a huge pot. If someone is drawing to an OESD then there is a good chance they will take a free card.

If they take a free card and it makes something scary now you are forced to call bets or raise and out of position: I don't think its a good line to take.

If you check then that also means if no scare card comes off or it doesn't help the other player and YOU raise on the turn then the pot is much smaller and the other player has much less invested and will be easier to fold. Also any scare card could come off that would kill any any TPTK action.

BTW I would not put him on a straight draw because it is so remote unless he just hit by chance. The flop has no texture to it. I would say more likely 2 pair.

 

[dsvw56]

Does anyone like checking the flop back here?

strike that, didnt see it was 3 handed on the flop.

 

[Richyl2008]

I understand what most of you say about reraising the flop, but we're really deep here, both with about 150 big blinds. isn't it a bit too deep to stack with an overpair?

I think if you have reads that your opponent stacks off light, then I think it's fine. It seems that you didn't have that solid a read on him when you played this hand out. Getting checkraised on this flop against a relative unknown, 150 deep, I like calling personally. If you make a standard reraise on the flop you'll have 1/3 of your stack invested, and if he shoves on you it's going to give you a very difficult decision, because you have no idea if he stacks with sets or smaller overpairs/or tptk. You'll have position on the turn so you can evalute his actions and bet sizing to narrow his range and make a better informed decision. I dont think giving a cheap card is that much of a mistake on this flop unless he has specifically 78, other wise he's either ahead or is drawing to 5 outs at the most, and you may be able to get value from him betting worse hands (like he ended up doing)or bluffs/semibluffs that he wouldn't call a raise on the flop with.