AA - $50NL - Turn Bet

M

mischman

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Salom is 31/14/.8/30 and is a LAP


pokerstars Game #10433244427: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/06/14 - 14:58:33 (ET)
Table 'Bootes V' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Sunnymatrix ($18.75 in chips)
Seat 2: Neeger ($32.55 in chips)
Seat 3: SalomXwave9 ($99.95 in chips)
Seat 4: Jack QuiQ ($54.25 in chips)
Seat 5: vermine ($48.70 in chips)
Seat 6: tenbob ($47.25 in chips)
Seat 7: mischman ($80.55 in chips)
Seat 9: Flugihempi ($46.40 in chips)
Neeger: posts small blind $0.25
SalomXwave9: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to mischman [Ad Ah]
Jack QuiQ: folds
vermine: folds
tenbob: folds
mischman: raises $2 to $2.50
Jack QuiQ leaves the table
Flugihempi: calls $2.50
Sunnymatrix: folds
spoiled9 joins the table at seat #4
Neeger: folds
SalomXwave9: calls $2
*** FLOP *** [6s Ts 9h]
SalomXwave9: checks
mischman: bets $3
Flugihempi: calls $3
SalomXwave9: calls $3
*** TURN *** [6s Ts 9h] [Jc]
SalomXwave9: checks
mischman:
 
calibanboy

calibanboy

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I do not know how to interprate salam stats - but you suggest Loose passive.

A tough spot against two opponents. .

The bad thig about the above is people can you put you on a overpair - but you have no idea what they have.

I think with the flush draw out there and a possible straight. Also 2 pair is possible with those cards. I think you bet 2/3 pot to find out know and fold to a re-raise.

I suggest, do NOT get married to hand post this bet.

btw. i think you had to bet $7 on the flop. you then know where you are and make people pay for a draw.
 
stormswa

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I really dont like your bet on the flop $3 into $7.50 pot?


no there is $15 or so in pot so I would just bet like $10 and fold to reraise and try to get to showdown on river.
 
J

joeeagles

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Well, I'm not going to jump on him for the $3 flop bet, he's trying to suck one of the villains in and get a bigger pot. Although it can be considered wrong, as a strategy I understand it. Anything more than the $3 and they both might fold. Not that there is something bad about that, but he's trying to get more than $7.50 and to a certain extent I think its ok, although that stuff is better to do when HU and not in 3-way pot. What makes it look really terrible is that both villains called and the turn brought a very ugly card.

Its a difficult play now on the turn, Salom has a huge stack that looks scary. The problem with this J coming on the turn and misch having AA is that 1 of villains could have KQ (maybe both spades?). While the $10 bet and fold to a reraise makes sense, I'm afraid this is not an ideal play against some opponents when the board is already scary and so heavy on draws. There are plenty players that would reraise with the flush draw; misch doesn't have the A of spades, so a hand like AJ or AQ of spades could reraise this, or even a hand like QJ of spades could do so, and the QJs is very possible with misch having aces. There is the big risk of folding to 2nd best, not to mention the fact that if Flugi calls Salom will have correct odds to call any draw, and you really have no idea where you stand now with a pot that is past $45.

With 1 player having already checked, I don't think its a bad idea to check back and attempt to call this lightly keeping the pot small for now. It might not be ideal, and you might get sucked out (easily on that board) on the river, but it gives you a better chance to get to showdown for the same price and maybe less, w/o forcing a painful river decision if you get 2 callers on the turn, which could happen on that board, or even worse find yourself folding to 2nd best hand if faced by a reraise.
 
Bombjack

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Stop being such a monster-seeing pussy and bet it. About $9 should do.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

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After your tiny flop bet they could both be calling with a whole host of hands - draws, weak made hands (A9 etc), even overcards (KQ etc). Lead for ~$10 and see what happens - most of the time you'll take it down there and then, but if you do get further action then you need to take a step back, evaluate what's happened so far, and make a judgment call.

Seeing as I doubt the hand ends with your turn bet (please tell me you actually bet the turn), I'll leave it at that for now, but I'm probably not going anywhere unless I get some funky raise-reraise or raise-call action behind me on the turn. A $10 turn lead still gives you room to subsequntly fold, though.
 
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calibanboy

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With 1 player having already checked, I don't think its a bad idea to check back and attempt to call this lightly keeping the pot small for now. It might not be ideal, and you might get sucked out (easily on that board) on the river, but it gives you a better chance to get to showdown for the same price and maybe less, w/o forcing a painful river decision if you get 2 callers on the turn, which could happen on that board, or even worse find yourself folding to 2nd best hand if faced by a reraise.


In Cash its a good idea to keep the pot small when you are marginal ( like now ) and raise bigger when you know you are ahead.

That said I prefer to try and win the pot here or lay down if players get tricky ....sometimes its best to walk away.
 
edge-t

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Check fold the turn to a bet. Really, what can you beat by the turn?

I'd have bet 2/3-PSB just to price them out. If call, the Jack of spades falls, I'd shut down on the turn.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

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Check fold the turn to a bet. Really, what can you beat by the turn?

AQ-AT, KJ-KT any pair that hasn't hit a set, any flush draw. again, as i said before, because we bet so little on the flop, villain's ranges are huge, but we have to think when it's our turn to act on the turn that we're ahead of both ranges.

check-folding is horribly weak here. if the guy in LP has AT/AJ/KJ/KT, he will probably think he's betting for value on the turn - and you're going to fold when he could be betting with so many hands you beat (i'm not even mentioning the possibility of a semibluff or total donkbluff either)?

seriously, i know we try and drill 'don't get married to big preflop hands' into people's heads, but there's such a thing as taking it too far in the opposite direction.
 
edge-t

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AQ-AT, KJ-KT any pair that hasn't hit a set, any flush draw. again, as i said before, because we bet so little on the flop, villain's ranges are huge, but we have to think when it's our turn to act on the turn that we're ahead of both ranges.

check-folding is horribly weak here. if the guy in LP has AT/AJ/KJ/KT, he will probably think he's betting for value on the turn - and you're going to fold when he could be betting with so many hands you beat (i'm not even mentioning the possibility of a semibluff or total donkbluff either)?

seriously, i know we try and drill 'don't get married to big preflop hands' into people's heads, but there's such a thing as taking it too far in the opposite direction.

I understand, but there's two callers. What's the possibility that one of them is on a flush/OESD? I think that's pretty high. The alternative is to call down to the river, or throw out a 1/2 PSB. But if the LP player or player infront CR you? Fold? it's pretty tough to play the turn, without bloating the pot size. It's only an overpair.

P.S. my bad, I misread the board... the jack's a club. :p I'd proceed cautiously on the turn though. check/call might be a solution.
 
calibanboy

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I agree its a tough one to play. I agree with Dorkus here though.
 
tnt72

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Awesome post.I have to agree with Joeeagles check the turn and maybe make a light call depending on the river action.Folding would probably be best
 
J

joeeagles

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check-folding is horribly weak here.
seriously, i know we try and drill 'don't get married to big preflop hands' into people's heads, but there's such a thing as taking it too far in the opposite direction.

I agree that check/folding is weak and I don't think its the way to go.

That said I disagree that checking is going too far in the opposite direction. Its obviously not a strong play but I see the danger of (1)folding to 2nd best if one of villains is aggressive or (2)betting $10 into a made hand who could just smooth call waiting for us to hang ourselves on the river. On this board a free card is dangerous but we can't forget that, as it is, we're putting ourselves in perhaps even more harms way by making this pot bigger than it already is.

Even w/o having info on these 2 villains we can attempt to guess a range of hands they could have considering that misch has 2 aces (and he's missing the A of spades) and they both called the $3 flop bet. What could they have? Besides the chance of 1 of them having KQ (or maybe even 87s) which has us drawing dead I can think of many hands that would raise the $10 bet, some of which that are ahead of us and some that are 2nd best up until now. It doesn't stop here either. We must consider the chance they both call, as was mentioned by edge-t the possibility of at least 1 if not both having either OESD/ FD is very high, and if both call we now have a $46 pot and don't know where we stand.

I understand your point DM and I don't think you're totally wrong, perhaps I'm the one who is wrong or I'm a monster seeing pussy like BJ says, but why throw $10 into this pot if you already know and admit that you don't expect the hand to end there?

Unfortunately misch's strategy of underbetting the flop backfired terribly on him because they both called and the turn J is a killer card. Right now if I'm involved in this hand my goal is to get to showdown as cheaply as I can possibly get there, hoping the turn is a harmless card like the 4d or even better the 6d. If the villain left to act is on a draw he might very well check behind us, although I do realize that giving a free card on this board could cost you the hand. But seeing the river for free would be great and help us a ton, if a bad card like a Q or K or a spade comes we can easily fold to any suspect action and save money in the process, if its a good card we can also easily call down lightly.
 
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