64s in CO

No point in hiding the results in this one as I'm lucky enough to have the nuts on the river. I'm more interested on your comments on my line and the sizing of my bets.

full tilt poker Game #6706473679: Table Slice (deep) - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:16:27 ET - 2008/06/05
Seat 1: ntrmykcr ($23.75)
Seat 2: raf70 ($24.85)
Seat 3: friendlyriver99 ($22.75)
Seat 4: Viincent Vega ($43.20)
Seat 5: xxNaitsabesxx ($59.50)
Seat 6: Tony911co ($17.15)
Seat 7: totov ($33.80)
Seat 8: BelgoSuisse ($25)
Seat 9: ceRR ($30.50)
ntrmykcr posts the small blind of $0.10
raf70 posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to BelgoSuisse [6d 4d]
friendlyriver99 folds
Viincent Vega folds
xxNaitsabesxx folds
Tony911co folds
totov folds
BelgoSuisse raises to $0.85
ceRR folds
ntrmykcr folds
raf70 calls $0.60
*** FLOP *** [5s 8s 2c]
raf70 has 15 seconds left to act
raf70 bets $1.80
BelgoSuisse calls $1.80
*** TURN *** [5s 8s 2c] [Th]
raf70 checks
BelgoSuisse bets $3.25
raf70 calls $3.25
*** RIVER *** [5s 8s 2c Th] [3d]
raf70 checks
BelgoSuisse has 15 seconds left to act
BelgoSuisse bets $6.50
raf70 has 15 seconds left to act
raf70 calls $6.50
*** SHOW DOWN ***
BelgoSuisse shows [6d 4d] a straight, Six high
raf70 mucks
BelgoSuisse wins the pot ($23.70) with a straight, Six high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $24.90 | Rake $1.20
Board: [5s 8s 2c Th 3d]
Seat 2: raf70 (big blind) mucked [As 8c] - a pair of Eights
Seat 8: BelgoSuisse showed [6d 4d] and won ($23.70) with a straight, Six high

Good job Belgo, I like everything about the hand, but I think we could try to extract a little more on the river. Bet size for river $9-10 for me.

Respect on the double barrel.

Belgo or anyone else who is good at cash games,

I'm trying to build my skills in cash games and need a little help.

Just wondering what the motive is in each step, where you put your opponent on each bet, effective/implied odds you saw, etc...

Thanks

yea i probably bet closer to size of pot on the river but pretty wp

hum I am the same as likminutz...
could someone explain the line ?


I will try to see if I understand what s going on
betting preflop : is 64s not a too weak hand for that ? i know nobody has limp/raise before... but you still have 3 player after ?

flop : call a bet potsize with 8 out ?
Turn : bet pot size ? to try to chase him off the pot, since i showed some weakness by just checking ?
River : the 3 give you the best hand : bet for value

In retrospect he probably would have called a bigger bet on the river, but the size kinda depends on what you put him on.

Question: what did you put him on from the flop onwards?

And I'm assuming the flop call/turn bet was a float as much as anything else, though I'm not sure floating works well at 25NL.

Well played. The turn bet is a bit iffy, but repping a hand like JJ here by firing again on the turn is fine. But if our villain is a bit of a station, I'd be inclined to check behind on this turn, because the ten doesn't change much.

Other than that, this seems very textbook.

And if villain is easy to manipulate, you could debate a flop raise here as well.

c9h13no3 said:

The turn bet is a bit iffy

Click to expand...

If we aren't going to be that turn though, there is no point in floating the flop. We obviously aren't calling the flop bet looking to just hit our straight, or at least i don't think we were and hope not, we were calling it to take the pot away on the turn.

Well played hand imo.

I pot on the river though is ~$13, and villain is not going to think that 3 helped your hand at all, so id rather see a value bet of about $10.

Rest of the hand is sweet though

P.S. are you checking behind on a wiffed river??

switch0723 said:

If we aren't going to be that turn though, there is no point in floating the flop. We obviously aren't calling the flop bet looking to just hit our straight, or at least i don't think we were and hope not, we were calling it to take the pot away on the turn.

Click to expand...

Why not? We're getting 2:1, and we need to make $5.40 when we hit (and sometimes he'll check), which is pretty easy to do. Plus if he's a station, or a loose player (like most 10$ NL players who defend with A8os), shouldn't taking the hand away on the turn after our opponent donks out for pot be a bad idea? Its pretty rare that a player will donk out for full pot, and then fold to a turn bet at these limits.

If you know this guy is a tighter/more cautious player, then I love the turn bet. But if he's like the usual villain at micro limits, I prefer a check on the turn.

The biggest problem with players at this limit are the implied odds they offer. They have a lot of trouble laying down hands, and they don't bet enough when they do have a solid made hand. So my usual strategy is to make my draw cheaply, and take advantage of the fact that they can't lay hands down.

Its the same reason I don't raise a bunch when playing small pocket pairs, suited connectors. My opponents pay off too easily.

I probably would have raised the flop since Ive noticed that people who donk into you on the flop usually have absolutely nothing. And depending on how bad the player is, I might consider just shoving that river. At 25NL youd be surprised how often this works. It looks like a bluff and a lot of players at 25NL arent disciplined enough to ever fold top pair. Against a more solid opponent I like a 3/4-pot sized bet on the river.

I think if you're floating that flop you pretty much have to bet on the turn there when he checks to you. WP

Thanks for the comments on this one.

The raise preflop from CO is more or less standard. Very few villains 3-bet to defend their blinds at 25NL, so my opening range from LP is huge. suited 1 gaper is certainly part of it.

Calling the flop bet is half a draw half a float. There's obviously excellent implied odds as my oesd is as concealed as possible, but i plan to take a shot at the pot if villain shows any weakness.

On the turn, he shows weakness so I fire a bullet. It's a bit loose because villain's flop bet was not a c-bet as I was preflop raiser, so he must have something, but probably not something that the T on the turn helped, so he can't be too confident. Floating the flop and betting the turn in position really works for me at 25NL.

Finally I hit the jackpot on the river, and the big question is how much to value bet. Villain did take quite some time to call, so i'm not sure i can extract a lot more value here. The only hands to could pay me big time here are sets, two pairs and maybe overpairs. But most of those do not fit the betting. Overpair would have 3bet preflop and sets and 2 pairs would have bet the turn. So i'm left with a range of Ace rag that paired on the flop, middle pairs that failed to hit a set, and AJ-AQ that did not improve, and busted spade flush draws. Of those, paired A-rag and middle pairs could pay something, and overcards and flush draws would probably fold.

The real trouble comes when a bland card comes on the river. Should I check and swallow my loss or bet pot to get villain to fold the best hand?

You bet the turn to take the pot away, so I think this pretty much commits you to betting the river, unless you have some sort of read that this opponent can't fold middle pair.

You have absolutely no showdown value if say, a 2 hits on the river. Therefore, I'd be betting to fold away hands like 89, 77, and busted flush draws that you can't beat in a showdown, but would probably fold to a big river bet.

Not too shabby, IMO - nice hand

When a blank hits the river... I dunno, it really depends on two things for me: what exactly the blank would allow us to represent, and what reads we've got on the opponent.

If it's a total blank (like a red two, in this case, or a non-spade K-T), I think I just cut my losses and check unless I've got a read that I'll be able to get the villain to fold.

I doubt he's going to though, as he's already called three streets and, like we see in the example, he called a big bet on the river when we actually hit our hand.

Which means even if the river does come as a "phantom out" (a nine or another spade in this instance would be idea, allowing us to represent either the flush or the more obvious straights), I probably still just check this and let it go. Against an opponent who I know can make a laydown, however, I might bet 2/3 of the pot (about the same as I'd bet if I actually hit).

FWIW, if villain is at least somewhat observant then just giving up and showing the semi-bluff isn't a total loss for us: we should still make a meta-game gain, as we may well get some more action on our real hands when they know that we'll be our draws.

Maybe would of made it a full dollar since cutoffs bets should be 3x BB ....the bet on the turn wasnt bad...u should of bet the pot on the turn IMO