$600 NLHE Full Ring: drawing to the straight and flush

Playing in a live casino game and this situation comes up,
2/5 nl effective stacks are $500
on the turn Board: Ac 5s 6d Qs (pot $80)
hero has 7s8s
villain is first to act and bets $80, we put villain on a Ax , and fold
after the hand we ask the villain what he had and he shows the Ad9h , he asks us and we tell him what we had and he starts going on how he cant belive how we can fold this , my reasoning is that with one card to come we have 34% equity in the pot and the pot is giving us 2to1 which makes this EV- , even if we consider implied odds it still seems like a marginal spot. what are your thoughts

Before I answer can you tell me what happened preflop and on the flop

bgomez89 said:

Before I answer can you tell me what happened preflop and on the flop

Click to expand...

bgomez89 said:

Before I answer can you tell me what happened preflop and on the flop

Click to expand...

shore Hero is bb villain is sb
pre CO limps, BTN ( a LAG local have seen him raise limpers with Ax and 78 type hands in position) raises to 20, SB calls , hero calls , CO folds
flop SB bets 20 ( not much info on this player I think hes average to ok player alittle fishy) , hero calls with open ender, BTN folds.
Turn SB bets 80 hero fold? open ender + flush draw.

Seems like a GREAT spot to squeeze preflop. Pretty much hate calling pre here with villains as described.

As played, you're almost getting direct odds to call the turn (I'd say you're about 30% against a range that donks twice here) and I think we can assume we have at least SOME implied odds if we hit our hand on the river.

I call and more importantly I shut up after the hand. Nothing worse than giving away information to your opponents.

Squeeze pre? Why?

WVHillbilly said:

Seems like a GREAT spot to squeeze preflop. Pretty much hate calling pre here with villains as described.

As played, you're almost getting direct odds to call the turn (I'd say you're about 30% against a range that donks twice here) and I think we can assume we have at least SOME implied odds if we hit our hand on the river.

I call and more importantly I shut up after the hand. Nothing worse than giving away information to your opponents.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your advise hillbilly you are absolutelly right in not giving away information , very very rarelly I show cards, in this instant i did it out of politness coz i asked the guy to show what he had and i returned the favour, so we got some info on eachother.
Can you please eleborate on how we are getting direct odds to call , i still dont get it as we have 34% to win the hand with 17 outs if villain has a pair but pot odss are ofering 2to1?

bgomez89 said:

Squeeze pre? Why?

Click to expand...

maybe with k9 or 74 id squeeze but suited connectors i want both off them in , so if i hit hard i got better chance of getting paid right

raise the turn and shove the river.

baudib1 said:

raise the turn and shove the river.

Click to expand...

yea that would probably work you goota have some huge nuts to do that though

bgomez89 said:

Squeeze pre? Why?

Click to expand...

Because it's a free $45 and our hand is going to play like shit OOP against these guys. We have a limper with ATC, a guy raising the limper with essentially the same, and a caller from the SB. None of them have a strong hand basically ever. So when we do flop a great hand/draw we're VERY unlikely to have any sort of implied odds because their ranges are all shit.

As for calling the turn, I said you're NEARLY getting direct odds to call (I'd say you're 30% to make the best hand and you need ~34% here). Since the SB has donked twice, I'd say he has a hand he likes well enough to give you another bet on the river if he hits, so with those implied odds, I think calling the turn is fine. I don't like raising the turn unless you think he can fold TP.

It's live though so people hate folding. If we squeeze here I see us having to play OOP in a 3bet pot against someone, especially if OP's read on the btn is right.

i don't like squeezing pre


edit: i'd rather squeeze with like K8ss than 87ss but even so i don't think it's great

I don't like the squeeze either, probably fold pre is best.

baudib1 said:

I don't like the squeeze either, probably fold pre is best.

Click to expand...

fold not best IMO not against the lag in BTN who is raising your blind with any two if folded to him preety much everytime. I dont mind the squeeze here once in a while, so probably fold 50% call 35% and 15% squeeze. I think that we need to play back at this oponent reguraly because if we dont he will just rob us relentlessly, even OOP.

Well, we're behind a random hand and out of position, plus we're not going to play our equity aggressively (as is apparent from the hand history) so we're just burning money unless we flop the nuts.