$600 NLHE Full Ring: $600 NLHE Full Ring: $600 NLHE Full Ring: Two pairs on the flop vs flush draw

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jfkingchan

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$600 NLHE Full Ring: $600 NLHE Full Ring: $600 NLHE Full Ring: Two pairs on the flop vs flush draw

2 hands that took place on the same night. Very loose passive live table.

Hand 1
Hero(BTN):~800
Villian(UTG+2):~750

2 limpers, hero raised to $42 with Js10s on the button. BB and Villain called.
Flop Jh 10h 3d. BB led out with $60. Villain min-raised to $120. Hero 3bet to $460 fully expecting Villian to shove or fold.

Instead, Villian just called and shoved his remaining 200ish when the 2h hit on the turn. Getting more than 6 to 1, Hero reluctantly called and being shown 6h7h. River bricks

Hand 2
Hero(CO): rebought up to $1000
Villain(MP): ~650

UTG raised to $24. Villain called. Hero called with 4c5c. BTN and both blinds called. Flop 10s 5s 4d. UTG checked, Villian bet $90. Hero raised to $270. All folded back to Villain who shoved with Qs9s and hero snapped. Turn bricked, river 2s.

Really appreciate some honest opinions on this 2 hands and how to deal with these kind of situations in general. More often than not I would prefer GII on the flop if I suspect my opponent is on a draw and I think I'm ahead. In retrospect by doing that am I often giving the flush chaser good odds? If I suspect my opponent is drawing should I wait one more street to see a blank before making my move?

Many thanks in advance.
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

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Actually both hands you were statistically infront the same.

But only difference is you could've folded turn which would've been extremely hard to do but don't think we could since our opponent could have Overpairs with an s in it.

We were 65% fav on the flop both hands. Not a bad spot.
 
Figaroo2

Figaroo2

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Raising from the button with JT and calling with 54 are both pretty loose plays. If you are seen as loose then you should expect opponents to call you pretty wide as well.
If you are playing with a bunch of flush chasers in multi way pots when the flush hits Id be looking to fold more often than usual.
However as played I don't see anything wrong with your betting, they chased against the odds and hit. these hands are coolers another day they miss and you win both.
 
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JKo2theQQ

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Your opponents were the ones who made the mistakes in both hands. I get what you are saying about waiting to see if the turn is a brick before u really make your move, but the odds were with you both times. Neither of your opponents had the right odds to chase their draws.
 
suby_rafael

suby_rafael

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Both hands were very well played indeed. Just plain unlucky to lose in both spots. You simply ran bad in both hands and this is when you are at the wrong end of variance. Other day you win 2/2.

Good luck to you in the immediate future. Don't be upset in losing any of the above two hands. :icon_thum
 
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jfkingchan

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Many thanks for the replies

Maybe I should refine my question a little bit. I am not a very good turn and river player(if there is such a term), and I have a tendency to simplify the decision by raising and shoving the flop when I think I am ahead.

As a result I tend to face a lot of combo draws all in on the flop, as more often than not the chasers will gamble rather than folding even if the odds are not on their favor. I tend to run pretty bad in these kind of situations.

I am not sure if this is the result of me always raising and shoving flop, thus also simplifying decision for the flush and straight chaser as they don't have to think about what to do if they miss. They can just GII and have two cards to hit their draws. This makes me ponder the general approach on the flop. Would it really be worth the risk of being outdrawn by waiting for a blank turn card before making my moves in general?

Many thanks!
 
suby_rafael

suby_rafael

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That is a very nice analysis of your own game in this kind of situation. Also the conclusion you reach about trying to wait for a blank on the turn is a good one to try in some spots but not all.

You need to take a few things into account before you do this. These should be the number of people in the hand and the effective stack sizes. If there are too many people in the hand when you have a made hand - raise. If there is only one or two people then look at their stack sizes and make your decision depending on these.:cool:
 
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