$600 NLHE Full Ring: $600 NLHE Full Ring: pocket 8 against fish

Live game blinds 2/5 eff stack $650
Fish plays a lot of hands , shows down suited garbage .
Can be quite agro at times , continue bets like 100% and pulls of wild bluffs. Also will float flop and turn with absolute air.
Pre Fish raises to $25(standard for table) , Folds around to Hero in BB with 88 and calls.
Flop ($52) 9s4s9h Hero checks, Fish continue bets for $75. Hero calls.
Turn ($202) 7h Hero checks , Fish bets $75, Hero calls
River ($352) Ad Hero checks , Fish bets $250 , ok so Im thinking fold here because hero has overpair , a 9 or A9+ more of often than a bluff.
But should we have stuck in a bet on the flop or turn ? I didn't want to bloat the flop and wanted to showdown cheap here .
The fish actually showed his hand after I said to him if I fold will you show , Ill post what he had after a few responses .
Cheers for your input.

What position was the fish raising from? What was your plan? To setmine? 88 plays like crap oop without initiative.

themosthigh said:

What position was the fish raising from? What was your plan? To setmine? 88 plays like crap oop without initiative.

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fish is rasing from HJ , although this is kind off not relevant as fish is not really position aware , hes been raising from UTG with Q5s etc.
Plan was to set mine yes , and 88 does play like shit OOP , so plan was to see a flop cheap , float the flop (as fish continues 100%) and give up if board turned scary . The flop was fine to float I think , the bet sizing was abit scary but still I felt like could have the best hand here .
The 7 on the turn was also not a bad card for the 8s , we could still be good here
as fish is capable of firing with air, and I wanted to get to showdown cheap at this stage. putting in a raise here would bloat the pot , and we would be entering pot commitment territory . ?

3bet pre?

WVHillbilly said:

3bet pre?

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Absolutely!!!

If you know this villains standard line then sounds like you needed to decide before hand if you were showing down on a mainly rag board. His same bet, same bet then apx. 3/4 pot bet on the river seems weak. It makes it a hard call but since you never tried to take the lead in the hand from him I feel like you had to decide that basically you were only ahead if you hit a set.

hmmm 3 bet pre , lead flop sounds ok ( coz fish not folding unless we 3bet big ) , but whats the plan on the turn if fish floats as he does?.

kanselau said:

hmmm 3 bet pre , lead flop sounds ok ( coz fish not folding unless we 3bet big ) , but whats the plan on the turn if fish floats as he does?.

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You lead again. This player will float the turn also. Your 88 crushes his range so get some more $$$ into the pot.

I'd be 3-betting this player all night with a very wide range.

Jillychemung said:

You lead again. This player will float the turn also. Your 88 crushes his range so get some more $$$ into the pot.

I'd be 3-betting this player all night with a very wide range.

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So the fishier the villain the more you 3bet him ?.
But against a reg that is playing say VPIP 21 PFR 18 AFq 75 and raises,
88 is always a call or do you 3bet also , and does position matter in this case .
For example mostly just call from standard Reg raising in early position and mostly 3bet his raise from CO/BTN ? Also do you decide to either call or 3bet depending wether you will be in position or not post flop?
I mostly played small / medium pairs for set value when villain has a big enough stack and 3bet smaller stacks .

kanselau said:

So the fishier the villain the more you 3bet him ?.

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Yes. I want to play heads up against this player a lot. Position does matter based on what I expect the other players to do and bet sizing (larger when OOP) Once I'm heads up though position doesn't effect things too much.

kanselau said:

But against a reg that is playing say VPIP 21 PFR 18 AFq 75 and raises, 88 is always a call or do you 3bet also , and does position matter in this case .
For example mostly just call from standard Reg raising in early position and mostly 3bet his raise from CO/BTN ? Also do you decide to either call or 3bet depending wether you will be in position or not post flop?
I mostly played small / medium pairs for set value when villain has a big enough stack and 3bet smaller stacks .

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I almost always 3-bet, most live regs really narrow your range when you 3-bet. Position only matters for bet sizing. There may be times when I'd set mine but it would have to be against multiple players (ie when I don't think any 3-bet size will get me heads up).

Jillychemung said:

I almost always 3-bet, most live regs really narrow your range when you 3-bet. Position only matters for bet sizing. There may be times when I'd set mine but it would have to be against multiple players (ie when I don't think any 3-bet size will get me heads up).

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Are we talking small pairs + medium pairs or just medium pairs.?
you are right about regs narrowing your range when you 3 bet , coz it happens a lot less than online , and when it does happen it usually signifies a big hand .
But small pockets play like shit post flop so is it worth it to build the pot with a shit hand ? ,or do you maybe 3bet just to get initiative in the hand and get heads up , then play the hand strongly and like fire multiple barrels .

Am I the only one who thinks flatting to set mine is fine here, villain is Argo and will pay off a set. If you 3b your mid pp he'll call a lot...and, you're gonna hate a lot of flops barring a another 8 or only one over. Even then it's scary how 88 can be hit by so many overs.

If you ask me, flat is fine, maybe call a street for cheap SD, but if he triple barrels like this, I lean towards a fold.

88 is good for 3b against passive calling station fish though. BeT hard if you hit set and get paid, or check it down for SD value when not hit.

kanselau said:

Fish plays a lot of hands , shows down suited garbage .
Can be quite agro at times , continue bets like 100% and pulls of wild bluffs. Also will float flop and turn with absolute air.

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What is there not to like about playing this villain HU from any position???

When such a player is to my right a couple of seats so that I'm in the blinds when they are in LP, I'm going to crank way up my 3-bets against their opens. If you are confident enough in your post-flop game and reading ability, you can make a lot more $$ 3-betting this type of player than passively set-mining them. In general (as always nothing is concrete as other players in the hand effect things) I'm comfortable 3-betting this villain with 77-JJ, A2s+, K9s+, suited connectors 56+, suited one gappers 97+, suited 2 gappers T7+, A9o+, KJo+, QJo. Players like this villain very rarely ever adjust.

Jillychemung said:

What is there not to like about playing this villain HU from any position???

When such a player is to my right a couple of seats so that I'm in the blinds when they are in LP, I'm going to crank way up my 3-bets against their opens. If you are confident enough in your post-flop game and reading ability, you can make a lot more $$ 3-betting this type of player than passively set-mining them. In general (as always nothing is concrete as other players in the hand effect things) I'm comfortable 3-betting this villain with 77-JJ, A2s+, K9s+, suited connectors 56+, suited one gappers 97+, suited 2 gappers T7+, A9o+, KJo+, QJo. Players like this villain very rarely ever adjust.

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We can read fish?
I can't, maybe that's why