$5NLHE Full Ring: Is this a full house?

Lopos

Lopos

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$5NL HE Full Ring: Is this a full house?

pokerstars Game #25619928492: Hold'em No Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2009/03/05 0:07:02 PT [2009/03/05 3:07:02 ET]
Table 'Tyndareus' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: bernik22 ($7.13 in chips)
Seat 2: ozjb ($4.16 in chips)
Seat 3: Philone01 ($6.43 in chips)
Seat 4: pigeau1 ($7.66 in chips)
Seat 5: jeeves207 ($6.90 in chips)
Seat 6: fox855 ($4.90 in chips)
Seat 7: sudagai ($5 in chips)
Seat 8: 222sputnik ($5.51 in chips)
Seat 9: paulbs49 ($7.71 in chips)
ozjb: posts small blind $0.02
Philone01: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Philone01 [Ac 7c]
pigeau1: folds
jeeves207: folds
fox855: folds
sudagai: folds
222sputnik: raises $0.10 to $0.15
paulbs49: folds
bernik22: calls $0.15
ozjb: folds
Philone01: calls $0.10
*** FLOP *** [5h 2c 5c]
Philone01: checks
222sputnik: bets $0.15
bernik22: calls $0.15
Philone01: calls $0.15
*** TURN *** [5h 2c 5c] [Ts]
Philone01: checks
222sputnik: bets $0.20
bernik22: calls $0.20
Philone01: calls $0.20
*** RIVER *** [5h 2c 5c Ts] 3♣
Philone01: checks
222sputnik: checks
bernik22: bets $0.30
Philone01: raises $1.20 to $1.50
222sputnik: folds
bernik22: raises $5.13 to $6.63 and is all-in
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

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it's a boat most of the time, but you're getting something like 2.5:1 and it's 5NL where i'd imagine there are tons of players who fall in love with weaker flushes here. at certain higher stakes or with a specific read that the guy is a solid/winning player, you can fold. with a much smaller flush you can fold. but with the nut flush at the micros against a relatively unknown player (i'm presuming), i don't think you can let it go

rough that he had it, but there aren't that many combos that beat you for him to show up with. 22, 55, maybe TT, maaybe 33. 52 or T5 junk shouldn't call a raise PF -- although even if he were bad enough to do that, he'd also probably be bad enough to stack off with a lot more stupid stuff that isn't a boat here, so it almost cancels itself out
 
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phemalephenom

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Well he has 10-10, the wheel or a weaker flush. Either way, i dont think I can fold it for 6 dollars
 
razin-n-blazin

razin-n-blazin

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I keep thinking opponent has 22 in the hole which effectively leaves you drawing dead after the turn.

You're chasing a flush against a paired flop in a three player pot. Do you honestly believe your A7 is going to be the best hand if you do hit your flush? Is it worth the $1.50 that's in the pot already to find out? Maybe. Is it worth your entire stack? I guess it depends on how deep you are. I just think you could find better spots to get it all in than chasing this flush down.
 
blankoblanco

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the bets were tiiiny, his "chasing" is fine
 
Lopos

Lopos

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Yep, on the flop I was getting 5:1 and the turn I was getting 6.5:1 not including implied.
 
razin-n-blazin

razin-n-blazin

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Those odds are if you have the winning hand or will have the winning hand. The nut flush is not the nuts in this hand. Perhaps chasing is the wrong term, but you only have .15 invested at the flop. Why do you want to take your chances against a paired board? You can still fold cheaply and find a better spot to get all your money in the middle, no?

I assume since you're asking the question you're not sure yourself if the flush is going to hold up. With that in mind, why not just call the river?
 
Lopos

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Not at all. I just was not expecting this bet/3 bet on the river.
 
razin-n-blazin

razin-n-blazin

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I assume since you're asking the question you're not sure yourself if the flush is going to hold up. With that in mind, why not just call the river?

Just to clarify I was referring to his original .30 bet on the river.

I might be a little confused now, but if I understand the thread thus far you feel really confident that your flush is the winning hand on the river. So you should be absolutely delighted opponent shoved all in, yes?

I'm curious to see how this hand played out. Is there going to be a conclusion posted?
 
blankoblanco

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I might be a little confused now, but if I understand the thread thus far you feel really confident that your flush is the winning hand on the river. So you should be absolutely delighted opponent shoved all in, yes?

no, because once the opponent shoves the situation changes. when he initially bets river, yes, we're pretty happy with our nut flush and we definitely want to raise for value since tons of worse hands can call. we can't predict the future and know he's going to shove. you're being a bit results oriented as if we should somehow think he's always going to 3bet river when we don't actually know that, and it changes his range once he does it.

so for that reason we are decidedly less happy with our hand at that point, even though i still advise calling at these stakes against a mostly unknown player who could be overplaying a weaker hand (but i'm guessing from the tone of the thread that he did have a full house)
 
Lopos

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no, because once the opponent shoves the situation changes. when he initially bets river, yes, we're pretty happy with our nut flush and we definitely want to raise for value since tons of worse hands can call. we can't predict the future and know he's going to shove. you're being a bit results oriented as if we should somehow think he's always going to 3bet river when we don't actually know that, and it changes his range once he does it.

so for that reason we are decidedly less happy with our hand at that point, even though i still advise calling at these stakes against a mostly unknown player who could be overplaying a weaker hand (but i'm guessing from the tone of the thread that he did have a full house)

This is essentially what when through my head when I saw the shove. I wasn't expecting it and his range changed. Although, I did end up calling reluctantly (mainly due to the fact that this was a 2/5 game) and Villain Shows up with 33 for a rivered full house. =/
 
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jyow

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maybe i'm missing something here but are you contemplating calling that all in there is only ace high?
 
razin-n-blazin

razin-n-blazin

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maybe i'm missing something here but are you contemplating calling that all in there is only ace high?

If you read his post one more time you'll notice he has the Ace high club flush.
 
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