5nl: KK vs 2x raise

eNTy

eNTy

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 22, 2007
Total posts
6,936
Chips
0
pokerstars Game #20821103659: Hold'em No Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2008/09/30 15:56:34 ET
Table 'Galene' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: beatejuice ($9.42 in chips)
Seat 2: deedot007 ($5 in chips)
Seat 3: PRIVET_PACAN ($5 in chips)
Seat 4: Entiteit ($9.65 in chips)
Seat 5: GKarre ($14.12 in chips)
Seat 6: boboruno ($15.54 in chips)
Seat 7: susan1985 ($7.59 in chips)
Seat 8: fran5281 ($8.83 in chips)
Seat 9: nmcharlie ($3.69 in chips)
boboruno: posts small blind $0.02
susan1985: posts big blind $0.05
deedot007: posts small & big blinds $0.07
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Entiteit [Kd Kc]
fran5281: folds
nmcharlie: folds
beatejuice: folds
deedot007: checks
PRIVET_PACAN: folds
Entiteit: raises $0.15 to $0.20
GKarre: raises $0.20 to $0.40
boboruno: calls $0.38
susan1985: folds
deedot007: folds
Entiteit: ???

No reads on villains, but notice their significant stacks and my own.

What do you think this 2x raise means ?
Should I be worried of AA ?

Then my action: do I flat ?
Do I put in a substantial raise say raise it to $1?
Do I pray I'm not dominated and they have something like JJ-QQ AK AQ AJ maybe KQ maybe and shove ?
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Chips
0
EDIT - You're 200 bb's deep, so this makes things tricky. I like a 4-bet to $2.00, and going from there. I'm not sure I can lay down KK preflop, even 200 bb's deep at this level... so I'm probably calling a shove.
 
deadhxc

deadhxc

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Total posts
860
Chips
0
I would shove and hope an A doesnt hit, 9/10 times you are up agains A/x and not AA in 5nl


ofc I am not the best advice giver ;)
 
eNTy

eNTy

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 22, 2007
Total posts
6,936
Chips
0
EDIT - You're 200 bb's deep, so this makes things tricky. I like a 4-bet to $2.00, and going from there. I'm not sure I can lay down KK preflop, even 200 bb's deep at this level... so I'm probably calling a shove.

Yeah that's why I added it, we're all 3 sitting on $10 stacks.

Can you explain why you wouldn't just shove here ?
and why is not the best of options either ?

Thanks
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Total posts
12,422
Chips
0
I agree with c9h except I'm definitely calling a shove against an unknown at $5NL as they will shove all day long even 200bbs deep with AK/QQ and possibly worse.

Put simply, a 4bet shove risks folding out AQ/TT-type hands that may well come along if faced with a 4bet to ~$2. There's only about $1 in the pot when the action comes back to you, shoving for $10 is pretty excessive.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Total posts
13,642
Chips
0
I agree with c9h except I'm definitely calling a shove against an unknown at $5NL as they will shove all day long even 200bbs deep with AK/QQ and possibly worse.

Put simply, a 4bet shove risks folding out AQ/TT-type hands that may well come along if faced with a 4bet to ~$2. There's only about $1 in the pot when the action comes back to you, shoving for $10 is pretty excessive.

That.
 
F

feitr

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Total posts
1,570
Chips
0
At 5nl you are always 200bbs no? Doesn't really matter, 4 bet to $2 or whatever and hope to get it in pf and if not on a non-ace flop. Can't try to 2nd guess yourself with KK in 5nl.
 
eNTy

eNTy

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 22, 2007
Total posts
6,936
Chips
0
At 5nl you are always 200bbs no? Doesn't really matter, 4 bet to $2 or whatever and hope to get it in pf and if not on a non-ace flop. Can't try to 2nd guess yourself with KK in 5nl.

No it depends. Only about 5 to 10% of the people at 5nl buy in for the full $10. I myself prefer to buy in for $5. Mainly because of my current BRM.
 
BelgoSuisse

BelgoSuisse

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Total posts
9,218
Chips
0
What the other said. Raise to $2, call a shove preflop, push flop when no ace comes, play WA/WB when one does.

Do I put in a substantial raise say raise it to $1?

BTW, $1 is not a substantial raise here. Pot sized raise is $1.6, and typically you want to bet slightly more than pot when facing more than one villain.
 
eNTy

eNTy

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 22, 2007
Total posts
6,936
Chips
0
What the other said. Raise to $2, call a shove preflop, push flop when no ace comes, play WA/WB when one does.



BTW, $1 is not a substantial raise here. Pot sized raise is $1.6, and typically you want to bet slightly more than pot when facing more than one villain.

Thanks for the info, I said $1 cause I was looking at his 40c raise, obv I shoulda look at pot size :eek:

BTW: Is there a strategy thread here on CC that explains how to play way ahead/way behind ?
 
Richyl2008

Richyl2008

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Total posts
731
Chips
0
I meant: and why is flat calling not the best of options either*

You have a premium hand, and you want to get the most most money in preflop as possible. The vast majority of the time with KK you will have a large equity advantage against anything they could have besides specifically AA. The times you have KK and are stacked by AA are going to be evened out in the long run by the times you have AA and they have KK. They are most likely not folding KK, and if they are thier often making a big mistake. You have to reraise here, you cant just call and let this other guy come along for a free ride. I'd make it $1.50 to go, and be willing to play for stacks
 
C

Cilderr

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 27, 2008
Total posts
119
Chips
0
micro limit, i'd raise about to 1.80 here and would call all-in bet. I think with AA the 3-better wouldn't mini-raise. Call shove.
 
Top