5nl 6max: Villain takes an akward line.

Lopos

Lopos

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pokerstars Game #21385547154: Hold'em No Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2008/10/21 18:49:45 ET
Table 'Risha V' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: bestchecker0 ($6.19 in chips)
Seat 2: johntis80 ($6.65 in chips)
Seat 3: OldTimer69er ($12.12 in chips)
Seat 4: MakeYourself ($5.84 in chips)
Seat 5: Philone01 ($5.13 in chips)
Seat 6: msmeltz ($10.44 in chips)
msmeltz: posts small blind $0.02
bestchecker0: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Philone01 [Qh Kh]
johntis80: raises $0.15 to $0.20
OldTimer69er: folds
MakeYourself: folds
Philone01: calls $0.20
msmeltz: folds
bestchecker0: folds
*** FLOP *** [Qd As 6h]
johntis80: checks
Philone01: checks
*** TURN *** [Qd As 6h] 8♥
johntis80: checks
Philone01: bets $0.40
johntis80: calls $0.40
*** RIVER *** [Qd As 6h 8h] 6♦
johntis80: bets $0.60
Philone01 said, "quads?"
Philone01:????

I'm so confused. Also. My image at this table is pretty weak tight. When I play tired, I am usually very passive and non-confrontational.
 
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rounder22

rounder22

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He bets pre then checks flop which makes me think he doesn't like the ace I would have bet the flop. The river call here is a tough spot it all depends on your read here.
 
AlexeiVronsky

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Since he raised UTG, I'd say he had something like JhTh which he checked on the flop hoping to get a free turn, when he picked up the heart draw on the turn he check called hoping to hit, when he didn't hit on the river he decided to make a desperation bluff to pick it up on the river. Or maybe a medium pair like 9s or tens that he wanted to show down so he made a defensive bet to try to ensure a showdown? Only other thing I could see would be a strange slowplay if he hit a set, or maybe with top two (though I think this would be a lot more unlikely.) I don't really like how it's played regardless, as you're likely to pick off any bluff, betting the medium pairs would be probably only get called by a hand that beats them, and I don't like slowplaying on the flop and river if that's what he did, especially if you're playing passively. I could potentially see KK if he was going for a flop checkraise but I don't think that's too likely.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Yeah, this is just a read spot, but its usually a hand like an ace that he "slowplayed" or something with a 6 in it. But its pretty player dependent. The higher his river aggression, the more I call here.

Its a tough spot, which means its probably a close decision. I don't think calling or folding is bad here, but I'd probably lean towards folding.

P.S. - Your turn bet is a bit large don't you think.
 
eNTy

eNTy

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Yeah, this is just a read spot, but its usually a hand like an ace that he "slowplayed" or something with a 6 in it.

That was my though initially too.
A weak ace that wanted to get to showdown, and on the river either doesn't think you have a better ace or hit 2 pair.

The way it's played it could be a lot of things really..
 
Steveg1976

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IMO- the turn bet is horrible, you have middle pair and you picked up a heart draw, just take the free card and call a reasonable river bet.

as played, I probably call just to see what he has but I can't expect to be good here very often.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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IMO- the turn bet is horrible, you have middle pair and you picked up a heart draw, just take the free card and call a reasonable river bet
I actually like the turn bet against your typical spewy 5$ NL player, its just the size that disturbs me.
 
Steveg1976

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I actually like the turn bet against your typical spewy 5$ NL player, its just the size that disturbs me.
What are we trying to achieve, with the turn bet?

An Ace isn't folding - Bad
A hand worse will call - good
Building a bigger pot with mediocre hand - Bad
The bet isn't defending against draws

Legitimate question btw, I am no pro by any stretch of the imagination it just seems to be betting does more harm than good in this situation.
 
ChuckTs

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What are we trying to achieve, with the turn bet?

An Ace isn't folding - Bad
A hand worse will call - good
Building a bigger pot with mediocre hand - Bad
The bet isn't defending against draws

Legitimate question btw, I am no pro by any stretch of the imagination it just seems to be betting does more harm than good in this situation.

It's thin, but it gets a little value from underpairs and worse queens, and does charge draws, all of which we have crushed. It's not 'horrible' by any means, but I do prefer checking it back again.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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I also like betting the turn because its more likely to get us a free showdown if the river comes something scary (like a jack). Of course, that didn't happen here, but whatever....

Point being, its easier to value-bet the turn thin because there are still draws & weak hands that call us, and the board can often get scarier on the river. And by betting the turn, we set the bet size. If we check back the turn and he donks into us for like 90% of the pot on the river, its going to be a tougher call. Plus it builds the pot a little for when we hit our own heart draw. Its a pretty routine line I take with mid-pair at 6-max.
 
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still i think at that point really what you wanna do is check behind controlling the pot size... the pot goes from a size of about 40c to 1.20... you wanna play small pots with marginal hands and big pot with monsters.... 2nd pair flush draw may sound pretty good but its still a huge underdog against any A...
 
dsvw56

dsvw56

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Betting the turn is close. So close that it's pretty much 100% read based here. I'm probably checking it back most of the time, just cause I'm a showdown monkey but I certainly don't think betting is wrong in any way. Checking just gives us such an easy out in this hand, check the turn and call like 100% of river bets that aren't just totally out of line and get an easy showdown with a hand that has a lot of showdown value.

That said, as played I still call the river bet then lose to aces full, but w/e.
 
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