5nl 6max hand analysis

Hi guys,

Your thoughts on this hand please:

.02/.05 cent cash game 6-max

Villain: SB (5.13$)
Me:BB (15.30$) KK
Other: 8.03$

Preflop action:

Other limps
Villain min raises
I re-raise to 20 cents with KK
Both call

Flop
3d 8h jc

Villain checks
I make a pot sized continuation bet (.60 cents$)
Other calls
Villain check-raises to 3$

At this point, i realised 2 things

1) I was guilty of not paying too much attention to how he was playing as I was multitabling so I had no read on his bet sizing and hadnt seen him showdown any hands.

2) Later on after this hand did it hit me he often min-raised pre-flop

I folded and other folded

I really though he had a set. It was a rainbow flop and he might have been drawing to an open ended straight and while my fold was partially because of lack of information on that player i really though he had a set. I didnt know if he'd bet his draws this hard either, so lack of information here is a big issue.

What do you guys think??

Thanks

If your gonna 3bet prf atleast make it amount that your not given villain info on the strength of your hand while pricing them in and not reducing the SPR.
I make it .45 prf, we preferably want to be HU on the flop and get the SPR(stack pot ratio) down so we can comfortable stack with our overpair on the flop.

After he check raises u i just ship it in, your tiny 3bet means he probably still has alot jacks in his range, JT-AJ,QQ,99,TT and some random spazes are in there vs 33,88,JJ(and maybe J8s and discounted AA) even if u discount some from the range we beat the card combos still mean we have good equity against his range.

But honestly prf is where this hand got really messed up, stop min 3betting!
A good rule of thumb for 3bets is 3-3.5x his raise IP and 4-5x OOP.
Makes the hand alot easier to play and alot easier to get stacks in postflop.

Insta-shove to his check-raise.

Much more often than not he's hit the jack with AJ, KJ, QJ, JT.


JJ and 88 are your main threats here (33 would find it hard to see the flop at 10x the BB, it will show up occasionally but not often) but if that's what he's got then you lose $5 to him, I don't think he had a set anyway. He might have check raised a set but he'd check raise to 60 cents, not $3.
If he doesn't have a set then all you're worried about is two pair, and J8 is the only possibility for that and if he did call your pre-flop raise with J8 then he's an idiot and I hope you outdraw him on the turn and river.

There are a million situations were you should throw away overpairs but this isn't one of them. I really believe he just spiked top pair and thinks it's good and someone who raises the way he did is likely to call for the rest of his chips which is why I recommend shoving.

He could have you beat here, but much, much more often than not you're ahead. Watch out for flops with two or more cards higher than a ten, that's where you're going to be up against two pair most often (which is what will kill your overcards more than anything else). A flop like JT3 would be a troublesome one but even there I'd still probably make the call against an unknown opponent thinking it was more likely he was on a draw than had two pair (and two pair on this board is a lot more likely than on J83).

thepokerkid123 said:

In


33 would find it hard to see the flop at 10x the BB, it will show up occasionally but not often)

Click to expand...

I strongly disagree with this statment,this hand is 5nl not 2nl, 33 is def in his range because prf he only has to put in 4BBs(2 actualy seeing as he min raised prf and OP thought was a good idea to min 3bet him).

Thanks Sindri and PokerKid123 for your feedback,

Sindri, let me see if i understand correctly here. Preflop first in i always open for a raise if I come into a pot, always a 3BB raise to not give away info on the strenght of my hand. Had villain not min raised i would have raised to 15 cents. I added an extra 5 cents to my prf raise because there was one limper and the villain min raised.

I guess what your saying is a preflop raise is a different animal than a re-raise. i thought i was properly re-raising the right amount but it turned out to be a weak min re-raise and it also priced him in too.

Thanks boys

I just graduated from 5NL to 10NL as my bankroll has grown. Anyway, my advice about 5NL is that 3x BB raises are way too low. Basically, a .15 pre flop raise will not price out a single hand. Honestly, at this stake, I suggest nothing less than a 6x BB raise to open with.

That being said...your min re-raise with pocket kings isnt a good idea. Honestly, 50% of the time I push all in right there (and, at 5NL you will get called by a lot of crap). The other 50% of the time I re-raise to say .90 or so.

The problem is that in 5NL, no one can lose more than 5 dollars. When no one cares about the money, its not poker, its just throwing cards at a wall and hoping that two of them stick. My experience has taught me that at this stake, the best bet is simply get good cards, put all your money in the pot ASAP, and let your advantage do the work. Trickery, fancy plays, slow plays, floating, small ball, c/r, etc...are all over the head of the average 5NL player.

Misread the blinds sorry.

I wondered why you didn't like the pre-flop raise. With that information, yes 33 is a possibility (he still most likely doesn't have a set though) and I strongly agree with you that it should have been raised more pre-flop.

Haha,thanks guys, I really didnt realise my pre flop re-raise size was the real issue here..thanks for the advice

Shootwillus, I agree with your 5nl caliber assesment but I am still trying to play ''smart poker'' at that level to get into good habits i.e always open raising to enter a pot, calling preflop very very rarely etc etc but I still do ok giving the fish more credit than they deserve.

Tx for the advice.

I think that you have good fold here.
Blinds are 0.02-0.05 and you have 15$.That 3X maximum buy in for the table.
At this moment you should leave that table and sit down on some other.I have lose all in with KK more then once when I have doubled or tripled my stack.

shootwillus said:

I just graduated from 5NL to 10NL as my bankroll has grown. Anyway, my advice about 5NL is that 3x BB raises are way too low. Basically, a .15 pre flop raise will not price out a single hand. Honestly, at this stake, I suggest nothing less than a 6x BB raise to open with.

Click to expand...

I don't think this is completely true. Do you play 6max or FR?

3xbb is fine for 5NL, it was my standard opening line. I beat 5NL 6max pretty easily. This might be a bit different for 5NL FR, which I did NOT play too much.

I think 6xbb is a little over the top, I'm not saying it can't work.

However, PFR has a lot more to do with what villains you are playing. If your villains are folding to 3xbb then there is no point in putting more money in the pot, and if they call your good hands when you bet large then more power to you.

Another point to make is that we shouldn't be looking to "price out" worse opponenets, we WANT them to play with worse hands. We don't want them to play correctly by folding when they have a bad hand.

So instead of raising more everytime we choose to play, it might be a better idea to change the range of hands we raise with regards to how our opponents are playing. If the table is extremely loose, then we tighten up. If it is extremely tight, then we can loosen up.

In regards to the hand, we should have raised more preflop with the 3-bet. Make it a pot sized raise next time as I think others have said.

Lik--

Hmm, you may very well be correct. I am a FR player and almost never 6max. I know that generally six max is more about aggression, three betting, and that your hand ranges will increase (hand ranges increase as the number of players decrease...raising/calling hand ranges given position that is).

However, its just that at this particular stake, play is so so poor, that it is much more difficult to price anyone out of a hand. Now, obviously we do not want to price out the hands that are calling against the odds...but we want to give them the WORST odds acceptable to them. I think at 5NL that you can give ridiculous odds and still have gut shots and other assorted garbage showing up at more than 8 to 1 a lot of times.

I don't know...I am in favor, at this stake, of vomiting bets and letting the donks/fish sort it out.

sindri_93 said:

If your gonna 3bet prf atleast make it amount that your not given villain info on the strength of your hand while pricing them in and not reducing the SPR.
I make it .45 prf, we preferably want to be HU on the flop and get the SPR(stack pot ratio) down so we can comfortable stack with our overpair on the flop.

After he check raises u i just ship it in, your tiny 3bet means he probably still has alot jacks in his range, JT-AJ,QQ,99,TT and some random spazes are in there vs 33,88,JJ(and maybe J8s and discounted AA) even if u discount some from the range we beat the card combos still mean we have good equity against his range.

But honestly prf is where this hand got really messed up, stop min 3betting!
A good rule of thumb for 3bets is 3-3.5x his raise IP and 4-5x OOP.
Makes the hand alot easier to play and alot easier to get stacks in postflop.

Click to expand...

Ditto.
When 3betting always make it pot sized. 5NL people call too much, maximize your value and remove the drawing hands.