50NL turned set VS. River shove from LAG

Ok guys just had a pretty interesting spot. I want your thoughts. I'm posting from my iphone so I can't post the hand history. This is Six max

Hero: mp with 75 dollars and
villain: button with 60 dollars.

Folds to hero who looks down at 22, hero has been LAG at this table, stealing pots uncontested with ease, no really solid regs.

Hero raises to 1.33, folds to button who calls both blinds fold.

Pot is like 3.25 going to flop

Flop: 46J

hero checks and villain checks back

Turn: 2 (sweet)

Hero leads for 2.25, villain re raises to 7 and hero calls.

Pot going to river is 17 dollars

River: 8 (suits do not matter there was no possible flush)

Hero bets 12 dollars, villain jams for 39 more.

Really? Thoughts?

Very strange. Maybe QQ trying to trap on the flop, or would you expect him to 3-bet us pre with that if hes LAG? Its the only thing I can think of with no straights or flushes seemingly there, this also means he thinks its safe to jam with an overpair. Odd how he's trying to rep that the 2 hit him, repping some weird straight? So he could well have it (or air) if hes a bad LAG. I think we can make a tough call here.

I really don't think he has any straights in his range. He's a bad LAG but he wasn't totally insane on the button. In fact he had folded every one of his buttons thus far, and all of them had been unopened. So I had no reason to believe he would call an MP open on his button with 3 5.

OH my, i think this is his straight draw completed at the river, this is almost 100% sure, because bad players always chase and when the had big the bet big, really unlucky i think sometimes LAG win big, his range from what you said is one hand that is 7 5. I think if he is LAG he really can play 7 5 s very easily.

el_magiciann said:

OH my, i think this is his straight draw completed at the river, this is almost 100% sure, because bad players always chase and when the had big the bet big, really unlucky i think sometimes LAG win big, his range from what you said is one hand that is 7 5. I think if he is LAG he really can play 7 5 s very easily.

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Totally removing 75 from his range when he raises turn. If he were on a draw like that he would want to get to a river, if he was planning on being this aggro he would have stabbed at flop with his draw and so I think he will pretty much never have 75 here

I agree, it's not a straight here. Its strange because he acts like the 2 hit him. I think im sticking with QQ. Trapping the flop, then trying to get as much value as possible afterwards on what is a dry board.

akaRobbo said:

I agree, it's a straight here. Its strange because he acts like the 2 hit him. I think im sticking with QQ. Trapping the flop, then trying to get as much value as possible afterwards on what is a dry board.

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He's lag.... I'm expecting a 3 bet pre 100% of the time from this guy if he's holding QQ

What do you most likely think it is? I'm thinking just compete air now. He sees your check otf as weakness and thinks you missed. Then gets it into his head you're trying to steal on the turn. 2 is hardly an action card so could have just tried to push you off it. I assume you folded?

I thought it was super badly played 2 pair in game. I tank called river

Jblocher1 said:

I thought it was super badly played 2 pair in game. I tank called river

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As the hand played there are no 2 pairs there. He has to be too dumb to play a 68 like that. I would play sets that way though against a LAG player like you. I also do not think I would slowplay top pair on the flop against a LAG guy unless I 3-bet preflop.
Unless he is bluffing with pure air or something dumb, he has a better set.

swingro said:

As the hand played there are no 2 pairs there. He has to be too dumb to play a 68 like that. I would play sets that way though against a LAG player like you. I also do not think I would slowplay top pair on the flop against a LAG guy unless I 3-bet preflop.
Unless he is bluffing with pure air or something dumb, he has a better set.

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Is there enough air in there does it seem to make a call profitable even though a portion of his range is better sets?

Not sure about the check to button. If you're really running the table over, c-betting here with most of your range seems standard.

Turn you should be repopping it OOP, making draws pay. River is a bit sick, your play earlier really made this decision tough for you. Only hand beating you that makes marginal sense is 44, 66, maaaaybe JJ but it's hard to peg him for a hand that he thinks is value and you have beat. Weird spot for him to bluff. Prob ends up being a fold.

CBet flop

After villain raises turn I would be check calling river, not betting 3/4 pot

Don't like how you played this on any street.

swingro said:

As the hand played there are no 2 pairs there. He has to be too dumb to play a 68 like that. I would play sets that way though against a LAG player like you. I also do not think I would slowplay top pair on the flop against a LAG guy unless I 3-bet preflop.
Unless he is bluffing with pure air or something dumb, he has a better set.

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This.

Also LAG players don't trap, so I doubt he is trapping with just a pair lmao.

CBet flop

After villain raises turn I would be check calling river, not betting 3/4 pot

Don't like how you played this on any street. You set yourself up for tough decisions in this hand.

IPlay said:

This.



Also LAG players don't trap, so I doubt he is trapping with just a pair lmao.



CBet flop



After villain raises turn I would be check calling river, not betting 3/4 pot



Don't like how you played this on any street. You set yourself up for tough decisions in this hand.

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Fair enough, but allow me to quote the wise and mighty duggs. He said recently that it's not really good to plan a line so we don't need to make tough decisions. But indeed the best thing to do is simply get better at making tougher decisions.

I don't know about trying to make draws pay on turn, I don't think he really has any draws when he raises there. When I 3 bet it basically just says to villain "k let's get it in".

I'm just lost trying to figure out if I beat any of villains value range. Is my set a bluff catcher when he jams river? Do I beat any of his range other than the total air portion?

I would c bet flop if I thought there was any chance in hell villain would fold, but he was pretty lag so his default would probably be float against me. I was kinda done with the hand when I checked flop like "alright let's move on there will be way better spots" but obviously that changed on the turn.

For the turn I see what your saying, if I'm going to flat the raise then I should probably check call river. Note though that this villain seems to give roughly 0 sh*ts about sizing in accordance to pot as he had just shoved all in for 20x pot a few hands before. Tbh if I check to him it's really likely he just shoves all in anyway for way more than is in the pot.

I'm really not sure about a 3 bet on turn though.... All that's going to continue is the very very very weighted value portion of his range. There will no longer be any bluffs in his range when he calls or 4 bets. So shouldn't we be doing our best to leave whatever air is within his range, in the hand?

HE had J2! im sure of it

Will post results soon, any more thoughts?

Jblocher1 said:

Fair enough, but allow me to quote the wise and mighty duggs. He said recently that it's not really good to plan a line so we don't need to make tough decisions. But indeed the best thing to do is simply get better at making tougher decisions.

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It's not so simple. For instance, there's a third element in the mix, which is putting our opponents to more and tougher decisions. Plus, the balance isn't necessarily the same for everyone. Sure, you have to expose yourself to more tough decisions to get better at making them. But is dong so an equally good idea for a player who's a decent winner and for one who's still trying to reach b/e?

Arjonius said:

It's not so simple. For instance, there's a third element in the mix, which is putting our opponents to more and tougher decisions. Plus, the balance isn't necessarily the same for everyone. Sure, you have to expose yourself to more tough decisions to get better at making them. But is dong so an equally good idea for a player who's a decent winner and for one who's still trying to reach b/e?

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now these are wise words

don't see how he's acting like the 2 hit him, he could just as easily check the flop behind with a set, also after he 3bets you on the turn and you opt not to 4 bet and flat call why then do you go ahead and lead out on the river, if you're doubting your hand strength check call the river, by leading out you just create a bigger pot which is fine if you believe you have the best hand but judging by how the hands played out i can't see how you would think you're good, villain either has a set, an overpair or air..

thatgreekdude said:

don't see how he's acting like the 2 hit him, he could just as easily check the flop behind with a set, also after he 3bets you on the turn and you opt not to 4 bet and flat call why then do you go ahead and lead out on the river, if you're doubting your hand strength check call the river, by leading out you just create a bigger pot which is fine if you believe you have the best hand but judging by how the hands played out i can't see how you would think you're good, villain either has a set, an overpair or air..

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Yeah I was pretty uncomfortable after the turn. I agree check call is best thanks, though when he bets I believe he's just putting me all in because he's slightly bonkers

My guess aside from AIR: AJs slowplaying the flop. Or 88 making a set on the river. You say he didn't play any hand from the button until that hand. This suggests that he must have found somewhat proper hole cards. Then a rather dry board appeared. Chances were good that he'd still be ahead on the Turn.
You say he is a "bad LAG". That makes all other scenarios possible as well including bluff x/r turn and river.
Just my 2cent semi fish thoughts

Ask first. Were you the hero or the villain?

Anyway, he has either 44 or 66, sure of it.

My guess is 35s.

However if you believed you have the best hand on the turn then you should 3 bet it. As others have pointed out just calling the turn and donking the river doesn't make sense given the river card.

44 or 66, maybe even J8s, given he has been taking down pots uncontested. 57s, I don't think so since he raised the turn. I rarely think he has air here after your 2/3 pot bet on the river and he jams.. It's either a better set or overplaying 2 pair..