50NL, KK vs reraise

pokerstars Game #8771337770: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/03/06 - 17:17:09 (ET)
Table 'Khryses III' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Motaeghor ($50.50 in chips)
Seat 2: lordyefc ($105.60 in chips)
Seat 3: gauchobufa ($27.60 in chips)
Seat 4: norfair18 ($49.25 in chips)
Seat 5: alex0023 ($55.85 in chips)
Seat 6: JuliusLT ($57.25 in chips)
Seat 7: WelshFish ($52.10 in chips)
Seat 8: alan1983 ($45.60 in chips)
Seat 9: nawrot1971 ($23.15 in chips)
gauchobufa: posts small blind $0.25
norfair18: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to alan1983 [Kd Kc]
alex0023: folds
JuliusLT: folds
WelshFish: calls $0.50
alan1983: raises $1.50 to $2
nawrot1971: folds
Motaeghor: folds
lordyefc: raises $6 to $8
gauchobufa: folds
norfair18: folds
WelshFish: folds
alan1983: calls $6
*** FLOP *** [9h 8h 8d]
alan1983: checks
lordyefc: bets $13.75
alan1983: ......?

Should i have re-raised preflop?

Was first hand i seen that guy in on my time on table. Hes betting it like AA i guess. What would you do?

Reraise preflop, and shove that flop. TT-QQ play exactly like this aswell.

At 50NL, I think like the set over set saying, if you didn't go broke then you played it wrong.

I reraise hard PF.

As said you should have re-raised preflop.

I would probably push here. You don't have a read on your opponent yet so your not sure if he is bullying or not. Your hand beats all but six possible cards that he could be holding. AA or either of the other remaining 8's. I push. Villlain is bullying and/or on a draw. You showed weakness with the check and villain is trying to steal.

true aa does play this way. but so does ANY pair. 22-AA will play like that. this is a very unhelpful flop to 2 PF raisors.

edit: at 50NL a tricky player could be light 3-betting with 67h or TJh or leading into your AA/KK with 89.

I definately would have reraised preflop and bet the flop hard. If he reraises the flop then you have a tough decision to make, but Id probably push all in, if he has aces I would just blame it on bad luck to get kings vs aces. Only other hand I can see him calling a reraise preflop with is pocket 9s.

I really feel paranoid now lol. I think youre all 100% right, but tbh i havent played too much cash games but ive never seen a re-rase preflop (unless by very short stacks) unless with kk and aa. And the guy wasnt playin 2 many hands so didnt take it for bullying.

I was thinking AA all the time, but then i thought like chuck said. Heres what happened


*** FLOP *** [9h 8h 8d]
alan1983: checks
lordyefc: bets $13.75
alan1983: calls $13.75
*** TURN *** [9h 8h 8d] [9d]
alan1983: bets $23.85 and is all-in
lordyefc: folds
alan1983 collected $42.60 from pot
alan1983: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $44.75 | Rake $2.15
Board [9h 8h 8d 9d]
Seat 1: Motaeghor folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: lordyefc (button) folded on the Turn
Seat 3: gauchobufa (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: norfair18 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: alex0023 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: JuliusLT folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: WelshFish folded before Flop
Seat 8: alan1983 collected ($42.60)
Seat 9: nawrot1971 folded before Flop (didn't bet)



Im guessing he had AK? I dont think a pp would have folded, unless it was a lower one to the board, and i dont want those and jj-qq to fold. And i dont think anyones folding aces here.

In retrospect, was there a point in leading out on the turn? Should i have check called or check raised or am i being too greedy now.

i think you did a good job, if you had checked he could have got more chances to get something in the river.

just bumping to tell you that lordy is actually a 200max player. been playing with him for a while now and just noticed him.

The only way no 4betting KK preplop is OK is if you're c/r all in on this flop

The flop is too draw heavy to fool around with, reraise all-in here I think. If he has AA or an 8 you're going to lose all your money anyway, but you don't want him drawing cheaply with 2 hearts or something like 10-J.

I agree with Dibitel, on nl$50 I 4-bet here lots and lots, the majority of nl$50 players will still play 10's-AA's, AK sometimes exactly the same way. On the flop you have a well disguised strong hand that dosnt look like its a big pair, I check-raise. The turn is a card you dont want to see, youve gotten into a horrible spot. Folding is ok now, betting yourself to prevent him bluffing the now large pot would possibly be a better play than check fold, but either is ok.

dbitel said:

The only way no 4betting KK preplop is OK is if you're c/r all in on this flop

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This advice only applies because of the fact that it's 50NL, right? At higher limits (1/2, 2/4+), I've always thought that 4betting KK against most opponents is pretty bad because you fold out so many hands you beat (often all of them)

combuboom said:

This advice only applies because of the fact that it's 50NL, right? At higher limits (1/2, 2/4+), I've always thought that 4betting KK against most opponents is pretty bad because you fold out so many hands you beat (often all of them)

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no, at all limits 4betting KK is good. The reason it is so good at 200nl+ is because of all the light 3betting and light 4betting that is going on. So it helps to flesh out your 4betting range, and your opponents will think that you are playing back at their light 3bets, and so give you more action than you should be getting

dbitel said:

no, at all limits 4betting KK is good. The reason it is so good at 200nl+ is because of all the light 3betting and light 4betting that is going on. So it helps to flesh out your 4betting range, and your opponents will think that you are playing back at their light 3bets, and so give you more action than you should be getting

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eh, not everyone is as aggressive and light raise-y as yourself. there are plenty of tighties and nits up there, too. and a player with a tight image themself would often not want to 4bet KK and scare out every hand they crush

I'm not saying that every1 4bets KK (althogh the nits do tend to, just b/c thats what nits do). What I'm saying, is that every1 SHOULD be. If you're any good, you will have agressive looking stats, and that alone will make ppl think you 3bet light etc