50nl HU ARGH!! ASDSDFSDFSD spot with 99

why are you 4 betting 99 in position? If you are ever going to 4B 99 in this situation it has to be in an attempt to get everything in preflop. As played fold, but keep your 4 bets to hands you are very happy stacking off preflop (and on most flops) and complete trash where there is no value in seeing a flop.

Villain could be shoving a tp type hand because he is scared of you having the Ad or something, or villain may very well have the Ad and just shoving and trying to fold out 99-QQ etc. Even if villain has 2 overs to you, and the flush draw you are in pretty bad shape (but getting odds to call). But this might be a retardedly played jj/qq with a diamond etc.

Anyways, calling this vs an unknown is spew i think. Change your hand into 72o w/ no diamond, and you basically have what your hand is worth on this flop, only now it doesn't look so pretty and would be alot easier to fold . Just don't 4B this preflop, makes no sense at all vs somebody who is 3 betting you for the first time when your hand plays so well in position after seeing a flop.

this might be an interesting decision with the 9d (i'm probably calling then) but without, i don't really think it's all that close and i'm folding. he could do this with plenty of Ks imo

switch0723 said:

The hand before this was the first time i had 3bet, and took the pot down on the flop with a c bet, so i thought his 3bet was partly revenge, hence the 4bet.

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^^^^^^^vvvvvv

feitr said:

why are you 4 betting 99 in position?

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Basically I 4bet expecting to win the pot there and then preflop and looking at it now, i still don't think its a major mistake to 4bet with position and with what is likely the best hand instead of calling and facing icky situations on later streets. I'm just saying that however because i've done it profitable in the past so it could easily be a major flaw in my game that just hasn't hit home yet, but meh i think both plays work fine, but calling is probably the most ideal.

Say we had just called and villain bet ~$18 on the flop what then?? Calling with intention of folding basically every turn???

combuboom said:

this might be an interesting decision with the 9d (i'm probably calling then) but without, i don't really think it's all that close and i'm folding. he could do this with plenty of Ks imo

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Does the 9d really sway the equity enough though sicne we are still behind all kings and still in terrible shape against flush + overs

switch0723 said:

^^^^^^^vvvvvv



Basically I 4bet expecting to win the pot there and then preflop and looking at it now, i still don't think its a major mistake to 4bet with position and with what is likely the best hand instead of calling and facing icky situations on later streets. I'm just saying that however because i've done it profitable in the past so it could easily be a major flaw in my game that just hasn't hit home yet, but meh i think both plays work fine, but calling is probably the most ideal.

Say we had just called and villain bet ~$18 on the flop what then?? Calling with intention of folding basically every turn???

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4 betting, intending to take it down right then and there, is basically turning your hand into a bluff. If you expect your profit to come from immediately winning the pot, then you are better off doing it with J4o. The "icky situations" get FAR worse when you are looking at a 4 bet pot where position almost doesn't matter since you both only have a psb left. It is the same reason that you don't 4bet JTs etc in this situation either, because alot of the value from those hands comes from seeing a flop and having position (obviously being deeper helps as well). I can't see any advantage to 4betting 99 here at all, unless you are vs somebody you know is 3betting with a wide range and will on occasion 5 bet shove with a worse hand. There is absolutely no reason to believe that a guy who is just now 3 betting you for the first time in a 40 hand match is "out to get you".

switch0723 said:

Does the 9d really sway the equity enough though sicne we are still behind all kings and still in terrible shape against flush + overs

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i definitely think it sways the equity enough. we go from having like 10% equity vs Kx no d to having near 40%. and i'd guess that's a significant part of his range. yeah we're still in terrible shape vs. certain hands, but it makes enough difference

well i folded and learnt something new about 4 betting ranges